Missy - v - 1st Credit

[missy]

Hi I got into a bit of bother with the repayments on a citifinance loan taken out in Jan 06.

 

I got into an arrears situation, falling behind by about 3-4 months, but still making payments ish. I sorted my financial position out but the debt was passed on to 1st credit. I dont remember receiving a deed of assignment.

 

I phoned 1st Credit. and made a payment and they asked for me to confirm lots of personal details. I confirmed my name DOB and address and I replied that my personal situation has not changed and they should have all relevant info passed to them by Citifinance.

 

They insisted on my phone number which I refused saying they could contact me via letter. They got very snotty and said "refusing to cooperate would not look good in front of a judge". Remember I had just phone to make a payment and to agree to future payments. I could not believe it.

 

Anyway I sent a CCA request and received a reply 1 month later. Please see attached. The last page is missing because i can only upload 5 sheets.

 

My questions are

 

1. Is this CCA legal? It seems to have all the relevant info however I read the signature has to be on the same page as the all the other info.

 

2. The covering letter says it is only an edited copy, should I insist on the full version.

 

3. Am I entitled to a copy of the deed of assignment.

 

4. I think there are charges in the amount that 1st credit is claiming. Can I put things on hold until that is resolved and if so how do I put that in writing.

 

Thanks for any help with this.

 

Missy

[cymruambyth]

Hi, sorry but your thumbnails are too small to read. Can you uplaod them using photbucket or something similar.

Never never speak to 1stC on the phone. They are horrible and often treat people like dirt.

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[42man]

Yep www.photobucket.com is free and there is a tutorial link here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html - I would also urge you to report them to the OFT as what they said to you is completely out of order.....

 

To answer your other questions, you will not see a 'deed' of assignment, this is a confidential document detailing a business transaction....you probably mean 'notice' of assignment.....you should receive one form the original creditor stating that the debt had been sold/assigned to 1st Credit and one from 1st Credit saying they had been assigned the debt......

 

Also did you ever receive a default notice ?

[missy]

Hi pics now uploaded using photobucket

 

cheers

 

 

Yep www.photobucket.com is free and there is a tutorial link here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html - I would also urge you to report them to the OFT as what they said to you is completely out of order.....

 

To answer your other questions, you will not see a 'deed' of assignment, this is a confidential document detailing a business transaction....you probably mean 'notice' of assignment.....you should receive one form the original creditor stating that the debt had been sold/assigned to 1st Credit and one from 1st Credit saying they had been assigned the debt......

 

Also did you ever receive a default notice ?

[missy]

Pics uploaded in a zip file.

1st Credit Stuff.zip

Edited May 28, 2009 by missy
forgot attachments

[babybear39]

It's not letting me view them post each IMG link separately.

[missy]

It's not letting me view them post each IMG link separately.

 

Sorry to mess you folks around. I have also put the whole lot up in a zip file in the previous post. Hope that is better.

 

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/remetiffy/cover-lettr.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/remetiffy/Page1.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/remetiffy/Page2.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/remetiffy/Page3.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/remetiffy/Page4.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/remetiffy/Page5.jpg

[babybear39]

IMO, it's enforceable but do check with others and see if they can pick holes in it as agreements aren't my strong point.

[42man]

Interesting there doesn't seem to be any connection between the prescribed terms and the signature page.....(although it could possibly be down the judge on the day) but if you read it in line with this -

 

A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

 

Did you ever receive a default notice ?

[missy]

So would a single document mean a single page or a number of pages joined together.

[lilly white]

Must Be In The Signature Document

 

So Are They One Document

 

Are The Pages Linked In Any Way

[missy]

The signed CCA agreement I received was 4 separate A4 sheets. All the loan details on sheet 1 and the signature on sheet 2.

 

Remember this, according to the covering letter, is an edited copy. They are asking me to confirm my signature before sending a complete copy. I seem to remember seeing, in another thread, a template to send saying they did not need me to confirm my signature to send the correct documents.

 

Does anyone have the link to this please and I will get it sent tomorrow.

 

Anyother comments on the sig. being on a separate page would be welcome.

 

Thanks

 

Missy

[missy]

Hi Again

 

Just to add to the above post I will also issue a SARN for all information held on account by them. Can i ask for a copy of all letters sent to me as I think they have issued a default notice in the past and I foolishly did not keep it. I would like to check if it is worded correctly.

 

Missy

[lilly white]

edit to suit

 

Dear Sirs,

 

RE Account NO XXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2009 in which you say that you will not comply with my request dated xxx under s.78(1) of the `Consumer Credit Act 1974 unless I provide you with a signature.

 

There is no requirement under the Act that require a s.78(1) request to be accompanied by a signature, and I am unable to accede to your request.

 

Further, I note that you have sent statements and correspondence containing sensitive private information to me at same address as that detailed in my s.78(1) request. If you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person I wonder why you have not verified the information before.

 

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998. The time to confirm my identity was before you sent your first threat letter.

 

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 78(1) was made on xx/xx/2009 and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xx/xx/2009. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity.

 

Please now comply with your legal obligation without further delay.

[42man]

And please, please report them to the OFT.....

[missy]

Hi

 

Should I send the SARN to 1st Credit or to Citifinance?

[babybear39]

Send the SAR to citi.

[surprise]

I had a loan with Citi and my agreement was exactly the same. PeterBard had mine and he said it was enforceable. I felt that there was something amiss with Citifinancial back in Jan 07 and I did a SAR and sure enough they were adding £10 each month to my account. Correspondence went back and forth for many months, their screen shots were difficult to understand but nowhere on the screen shots was the £10 charge shown only on the statement that they provided. In June 07 I received a letter from them saying that they were sorry I was not happy but they would respond again within 28 days. Some months later I received a telphone call from a DCA advising that they now owned the account. I told them to write to me, I then sent a CCA letter, however, they were unable to produce a copy of the agreement, but I do know for a fact that Citi did hold a valid one but they never passed it onto the DCA. It has always puzzled me what Citi's game has been and obvsiouly as they had a compliant agreement why they never took me to court, after all the loan was only six months into a 48 month contract.

 

When you get the results of your SAR from Citi read them thoroughly. I had a devil of a job to get the paperwork from them and I had to report them to the ICO, after which they complied.

 

Good luck with this.

[missy]

Hi Here is an update.

 

I sent a letter to 1st asking for a true copy of my CCA agreement via registered post at the end of last month. Ir you remember from a previous post I was sent some photo copied sheets where the details of the loan and the signature block were on different pages.

 

I heard nothing until today where I have received an offer of 30% off if I pay within 7 days.

 

Missy

[missy]

OK here is an update.

 

Received another letter offering a 30% discount, I ignored that as before.

 

Then received a letter from DHS (Debt Help Services).

 

What I don't understand is if they believe I owe this money then why don't they just take me to court.

 

Should I send a SARN to the original loan company or to 1st?

 

regards

[babybear39]

SAR goes to the original creditor unless you want all the info 1st crud have on you but if they haven't had the account long it'll be a waste of money.

[missy]

Update:

 

I have not sent the SARN yet however I received a letter from 1st today. The letter, in a nutshell, says fill in the standing order mandate or we will send an Agent to your house.

 

Should I ignore or should I send the "don't send anyone to my house as it is threatening and illegal' letter?

 

Again, if they are confident the CCA is in order then why don't they just go straight to court?

 

missy

[babybear39]

SAR and put the account in dispute

[missy]

Update

 

Sent letter saying "you have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account etc. etc. and that the account was now in dispute ( the letter from the library).

 

Anyway I receive a reply acknowledging the complaint with an outline of the complaints procedure.

 

So we will see what happens.

 

Missy