Hello, I need some help!

[choccie13]

Hello!

 

I hope someone can help me or something because I don't know where to turn. My problem is that on the 25/9/08 I received a letter from 1st Credit regarding my Aqua mastercard and in the letter it stated that I had to pay the debt owed or they would take legal action. So, I called them to make a monthly payment agreement of £30 with them (it's all I can afford) which they flatly refused and told me to call back by 12:30pm tomorrow (Friday, 3rd October) with an offer that would consider, something around £200 which I can't pay.

 

I am terrified they are going to take me to court now and the thought of that is making my illness worst. You see, I am on Income Support and I suffer from depression and heart problems and I am not good at dealing with people over the phone or in person. In the past when I tried talking with Aqua about this they didn't care and it resulted in me being in bed for a week due to my heart issues and now I am scared to use the phone.

 

I really don't know what to do and I feel so alone. My family try and help with my other debts but they have debts themselves.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice anyone may be able to offer me.

 

Edited to change the subject title slightly to make it clearer at a glance. Also, smarties21 is my sister and is dealing with everything for me now (it's explained later in the thread) so it's ok to talk to her about it. Thanks.

Edited February 28, 2009 by choccie13
Want to change the title so it's more clear what I need help with

[Rooster-UK]

Hi Choccie.

 

I'll move this thread into the Debt Forum where you will get the advice and help that you need.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[PossVox]

Hi.

 

First of all NEVER speak to them on the phone!

 

How long have you had the card?

 

When did you stop paying?

 

Do these people have a right to collect?

 

There will be loads of support and advice forthcoming but the more details you can give the better it will be.

 

PV

[choccie13]

Thank you for moving my thread, Rooster-UK. I'm sorry for posting it in the wrong forum. This whole situation has made me feel very disorientated recently.

 

Sorry for the length of this reply. I don't want to miss anything out if I can help it. I'm at my wits end right now. It's my mess and I've always tried to deal with it all the best I can, but I don't see a way out of this.

 

To answer your questions as best I can, PossVox:

 

How long have you had the card?

I've had the card since 12th, July 2002.

 

When did you stop paying?

My last payment was in May this year.

 

Do these people have a right to collect?

The letter they sent me on the 25th of September says that their client (Aqua Mastercard) has advised them (1st Credit) that an amount remains unpaid and they've been instructed to take appropriate action to recover this debt.

 

If it helps, here are some further details about the situation.

 

Last year I asked Aqua if I could have reduced payments but they refused. I can't stress enough how nervous and frightened I am when talking to someone normally, but this was a really horrible phonecall. She didn't care that I was ill and struggling, she told me to get a grip and I was so upset that I ended up hanging up.

 

The minimum payments at the time were over £60 but I have other debts to deal with and it was all too much earlier this year. It made it all the more harder that other debts I had were able to be sorted out with agreements and also allowed my mum to deal with the verbal communication because of my worsening condition, but Aqua would only deal with me.

 

The first communication I had with 1st Credit was the letter I mentioned on the 25th September.

 

I called them (maybe a week ago now, I'm unsure exactly) asking for a monthly agreement of £30 that I could pay by postal order on the 2nd October, but they didn't want to do an agreement at all. I was told that they wanted the full amount and I had until Friday 3rd October to get the money. They suggested I borrow off friends and family.

 

In my first post I said £200, but I was in a state when I wrote it - the full debt is £2,260.58 and £200 was an amount I had in my head to offer them today when they told me I should call back by. I really can't afford it, but it's the most I can get.

 

I think I have a default on my Aqua account, but I checked my credit report on 8th August and it didn't mention it (but I thought I should bring it up in case it has relevance).

 

I really hope someone can give me some advice. It took a lot for me to write these posts here but I didn't know what else to do. I don't think I would be able to cope mentally or physically if they took me to court but from the things I've read on here about 1st Credit and their reluctance to come to any kind of compromise I fear that's what will happen.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[42man]

Firstly do try and relax.......they are being unreasonable....AND please STOP talking to them on the phone, they are in breach of the OFT's guidelines by asking you to borrow more money....

 

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

 

In the first instance I would send them letter 'N' from here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Send this letter by recorded delivery and enclose a £1 postal order in the envelope.....and do NOT HAND SIGN IT.....

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, They have to provide a copy of your agreement in 12+2 working days....if they don't then they are in default of your request and you are within your rights to stop paying......!!

Send the request off and keep us posted.....

[PGH7447]

Thank you for moving my thread, Rooster-UK. I'm sorry for posting it in the wrong forum. This whole situation has made me feel very disorientated recently.

 

Sorry for the length of this reply. I don't want to miss anything out if I can help it. I'm at my wits end right now. It's my mess and I've always tried to deal with it all the best I can, but I don't see a way out of this.

 

To answer your questions as best I can, PossVox:

 

How long have you had the card?

I've had the card since 12th, July 2002.

 

When did you stop paying?

My last payment was in May this year.

 

Do these people have a right to collect?

The letter they sent me on the 25th of September says that their client (Aqua Mastercard) has advised them (1st Credit) that an amount remains unpaid and they've been instructed to take appropriate action to recover this debt. This proves nothing, you need to send them a CCA request, template N in the library, send it recorded deliver with a £1 postal order, do not sign just print your name

 

If it helps, here are some further details about the situation.

 

Last year I asked Aqua if I could have reduced payments but they refused. I can't stress enough how nervous and frightened I am when talking to someone normally, but this was a really horrible phonecall. She didn't care that I was ill and struggling, she told me to get a grip and I was so upset that I ended up hanging up.

 

The minimum payments at the time were over £60 but I have other debts to deal with and it was all too much earlier this year. It made it all the more harder that other debts I had were able to be sorted out with agreements and also allowed my mum to deal with the verbal communication because of my worsening condition, but Aqua would only deal with me.

 

The first communication I had with 1st Credit was the letter I mentioned on the 25th September.

 

I called them (maybe a week ago now, I'm unsure exactly) asking for a monthly agreement of £30 that I could pay by postal order on the 2nd October, but they didn't want to do an agreement at all. I was told that they wanted the full amount and I had until Friday 3rd October to get the money. They suggested I borrow off friends and family. that is totally unlawful and you should report them to TS and OFT, also from now on do not speak to them on the phone, everything in writing

 

In my first post I said £200, but I was in a state when I wrote it - the full debt is £2,260.58 and £200 was an amount I had in my head to offer them today when they told me I should call back by. I really can't afford it, but it's the most I can get. dont pay them anything until you get the agreement back, when you have send the CCA they have 12+2 days to supply it, after this time the account is in default until they come up with an enforceable agreement

 

I think I have a default on my Aqua account, but I checked my credit report on 8th August and it didn't mention it (but I thought I should bring it up in case it has relevance).

 

I really hope someone can give me some advice. It took a lot for me to write these posts here but I didn't know what else to do. I don't think I would be able to cope mentally or physically if they took me to court but from the things I've read on here about 1st Credit and their reluctance to come to any kind of compromise I fear that's what will happen.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Hi you are now amongst friends here who will not judge you, but will help where possible, as stated above send the CCA to 1st crapit, if they phone do not answer any security questions just say in writing and put the phone down, these people have no power whatsoever, they are just leaches who pray on paople in difficulties

[surprise]

There are loads of us dealing with 1st Credit, you should read a few of the threads and this may help you relax. If you do a search and put 1st Credit in this will highlight all the threads for you. If they do persist in phoning you there is the harassment letter you can send.

 

Don't let them intimidate you, GAG is here to help and support.

[ashmk]

Hi choccie13,

 

Welcome to CAG, your in good hands here.

 

Like 42man has already said, the first thing you should do is send a CCA request to them. (see post 5).

They say you must now pay them but if I told you you must now pay me, would you ? No, you would want to see proof. The aim of the CCA is to make them prove to you them can demand.

If they cannot show you the agreement you originally signed then they can go dance for the money.

 

By not supplying the agreement does not mean they wont stop ranting at you (because many do carry on) but it means you can simply file all there letters under ignor and get on with your life untill such time the true copy of the signed agreement turns up.

 

Back in 2002 a lot of companys did not fill out the paperwork correctly and now its coming back and biting them in the butt because its not standing in court.

For example if you only ever filled in an application, which many people did and got sent a credit card on the strength of this then they will not be able to take you to court, OR they could take you to court but they would lose allowing you to counterclaim (if thats your thing).

[choccie13]

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice! I really appreciate the time you all took to help me.

 

I will follow the advice given and I hope the next time I have an update it will be something positive.

 

Once again, thank you to everyone for being patient, understanding and helpful. I am so glad I made the first steps of joining and posting on this forum.

 

Have a good weekend all.

[choccie13]

Hi you are now amongst friends here who will not judge you, but will help where possible, as stated above send the CCA to 1st crapit, if they phone do not answer any security questions just say in writing and put the phone down, these people have no power whatsoever, they are just leaches who pray on paople in difficulties

 

Sorry to reply so quickly, but I'm concerned about something.

 

The last phonecall I had with them when they asked for all the money (I haven't spoke to them since then), they asked for my mother's maiden name which I gave. Now I know I shouldn't have, but will it make a difference that I said that? I hope it won't because it's before any agreement, but I have to ask for my own wellbeing. Can they use it against me in some way?

 

Thank you again.

[PossVox]

Hi Choccie,

 

I shouldn't worry about giving them that information, after all you're not going to be speaking to them on the phone again are you? (!).

 

Don;t forget that it's you that is in control of this matter right now-you have asked for what is rightfully yours i.e. the CCA, without this they are stuffed!

 

Try to relax over the weekend and let us know of any developments as and when.

 

PV

[choccie13]

Thanks for the reply again, PossVox. I won't speak to them on the phone and I will try not to worry myself excessively this weekend.

 

I'm sorry to be a bother again but there's one thing about the letter I don't quite understand. I feel foolish to ask but I'd feel even more foolish if I didn't.

 

It's regarding the reference / account number I add. Because the letter is addressed to 1st Credit I assume I write their reference number, but am I also meant to include my Aqua credit card account number too so they know what this is in regard to?

 

Sorry again for all the questions and thanks in advance if anyone can advise me.

[PGH7447]

You can just use their reference number or both it really makes no odds

[choccie13]

Thanks again for all the help and advice. I received the reply from 1st Credit today. Here's what the letter (dated 8th October) says:

 

REQUEST FOR COPY AGREEMENT

 

We refer to your recent communication requesting a copy of the relevant agreement.

 

The document you have requested is retained by our client. We will therefore advise them of your request and arrange for the document to be sent to you as soon as possible.

 

Should your request also include the below documents, please be advised of the following:

 

Deed of Assignment- we would refer you to Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself.

 

Copy statements---there is a charge of £10.00 for this information.

 

On receipt of the copy agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of the debt.

 

Please call the office should you wish to discuss this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT

I must admit, this doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. Do I just wait until their "client", Aqua, get in contact with me? :-?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[PGH7447]

They have acknowledge your request now you wait, if after the 12+2 days deadline the agreement has not been produced then the account is in dispute and they cant enforce colection until they produce the agreement

[surprise]

Although 1st Credit will try by writing and asking you to contact them. It is up to them to provide the agreement, if they do send you one, post it up so that it can be checked to see whether its enforceable. I always acknowledge their letters by referring to the fact that until such time that an the agreement containing all the prescribed terms and conditions and is signed by debtor and creditor has been received by me no discussions will take place.

 

Just sit back and relax now.

[mr.ton]

Refuse to answer any of their security questions when they ring

1st crud are just full of hot air anyway like every other DCA & wont actually do anything to you

[choccie13]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I don't know how I'd be coping if I'd not posted on here - you've all been such a big help to me.

 

Before I forget though, is the 12+2 starting from when I sent my letter or when they sent theirs?

 

Glad it's almost the weekend now.

[PGH7447]

12+2 from when they get it, that way they cant complain about short timelines, even though they tend to give people 48hrs if your lucky

[choccie13]

I'm sorry about this, I didn't know whether to start a new thread or reply to this one. I thought perhaps it would be best to reply but I apologize in advance if starting another thread is the preferred action on this forum.

 

Anyway, the reason I'm writing again is that today I finally received a reply regarding the CCA request. I will scan it in as soon as I hook our scanner up if needed but here are a few things of note:

 

The letter is date stamped for 10th December

There are 3 parts to it;

1. 1st Credits logo, address and "With Compliments"

2. A photocopy of my signed agreement with Aqua

3. Aqua Credit Card Financial and Related Conditions

 

On the signed agreement it has my personal and financial details, a few ticked boxes (one agreeing to payment protection and one agreeing to their terms), my signature and the date I filled it in (5th July 2002).

 

Will they be in contact again or am I suppose to write to them?

 

Thanks in advance. Have a good weekend all.

[surprise]

You will need to scan what they have sent you so that we can have a look at it, it appears to be an application form rather than an agreement. As soon as you have posted further advice will be given. Don't panic about 1st Credit they issued a stat demand on us which we challenged and won in court yesterday with costs. You just need to "chill out" basically, don't let them get to you, it is a long drawn out process so its not going to away overnight.

[choccie13]

Thanks for the reply, surprise.

 

I've scanned in both pages but I didn't want the pages to be unreadable so I've kept them quite large. Because of that I'm just going to link them for anyone that wants to take a look.

 

Application Form (?)*

 

Financial and Related Conditions

 

Thanks in advance!

 

*I should point a few things out. Firstly, the top line ("Your Priority Aqua ... ...") was cut off already on the copy they sent me.

 

Secondly, they blanked some of it out, but I've blanked out other bits because, unless it's important, I didn't want just anyone be able to read it. In the first section called More about you where it asks "Are you:" it's about my marital status, the second "Are you:" is about my living arrangements. Finally, the "About what you do" section asks me to tick a box regarding my Occupation.

 

Figured that was worth explaining. Thanks again.

[surprise]

I've just won a set aside against 1st Credit with costs. They sent an application form to us for an agreement. They will persue you for this but whatever you do don't speak to them on the phone and don't panic. You will need to dig your heels in though. I would write to them and thank them for the copy of the application form, however, it was a copy of the agreement that you required. Also state that if they are unable to provide a copy of the relevant agreement signed by both creditor and debtor and containing all the prescribed terms and conditions then please state so and confirm that they have put the balance at zero.

 

1st Credit are quick to issue Stat Demands but then when you challenge them they back off. They issue these hoping people don't know their rights, however, they are coming unstuck at the moment as they are losing and having to pay costs. Any mail you get will probably be their usual bog standard replies so just post and get more advice.

You will need to stay strong and remember the fact that they haven't got a signed agreement is defence in itself.

 

best wishes

[choccie13]

Thanks for your reply again, surprise. Congratulations on winning against 1st Credit, first of all.

 

This is all taking its toll on me but my sister (smarties21 on here) signed up yesterday and she's going to help me deal with this. I really wanted to manage this all on my own but it's just making me ill.

 

I will end up checking back on here but, for now at least, my sister has all the letters and notes about this so she can handle things on my behalf.

 

Thanks again for everyones advice. We'll both be following it closely.

[smarties21]

I would write to them and thank them for the copy of the application form, however, it was a copy of the agreement that you required. Also state that if they are unable to provide a copy of the relevant agreement signed by both creditor and debtor and containing all the prescribed terms and conditions then please state so and confirm that they have put the balance at zero.

 

Thanks for the advice, surprise. This will be really helpful to us!

 

I was just wondering if there's a specific template I could follow? I did find a post in another thread which seems to contain a letter we could use, but I want to be positive it's the same situation. Here's the letter, as written by fuzzybobble:

 

[snip]

 

Reference number xxxxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On xx/xx/200x I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account has entered default.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

Please note that I will not correspond further by letter or phone, until you fulfil my request.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

If it's not too much of a bother, could someone read through it and let me know if that would be appropriate to send.

 

Thanks in advance!