Do old C.C.J.s Dilute with age ???

[bengateway]

Wonder if anyone can throw some light on this ?

 

I had a ccj issued some nine years ago despite the creditor being contacted about the debt by myself and C.A.B,who were acting on my behalf.

Well they ignored communications and went for the jugular so to speak ( A CCJ ) I have been paying the ammount set by the courts and never defaulted.

Some 2 years ago A D.C.A. contacted me saying that they had been assigned the debt,full payment was now required,and I should phone to make payment arrangements which would include contractual interest where applicable.

I wrote back reminding them that the debt was currently being repaid under a CCJ (recorded delivery)

They didn't respond and then, just recently, sent exactly the same letter to me as before ?? Well not sure how there minds work, but it all seems pretty non constructive,so I have sent a cca despite the county court judgement just to see what exactly they have, and more to the point what they are playing at.I believe that ccj's come of court records after six years,but would very much appreciate some advise on the best way to tackle this one.

Hopefully A cca request along with deed of assignment was the way I should go.

Many Thanks in advance

[Goldlady]

Are you still paying off the CCJ or have you repaid them?

 

I think the route you are taking is the right one. These people are idiots and I think as desperation sinks in - people fighting for their rights thanks to sites like this - and people who just can't pay - they are going to the bottom of the barrel to try and get some money in. After all, if it wasn't for them getting the CCJ the debt would be statute barred anyway.

 

Was it a credit card/loan that you owed the money for?

[diskmandave]

As there is a County Court Judgement, which by your own admission you've been paying religiously, asking for the original agreement and deed/certificate of assignment is a pointless exercise as the debt has been enforced by the Court. It will not dilute with age and will not go away until fully satisfied.

 

That said.... NO newly appointed DCA or Creditor sold on to has any right to vary the terms or payments ordered by the Court unless a new Order or Variation has been sought.

 

Some 2 years ago A D.C.A. contacted me saying that they had been assigned the debt,full payment was now required

Should this happen again, report them to the Court that made the original order (CCJ).

 

would very much appreciate some advise on the best way to tackle this one.

Telephone the Court that made the CCJ. No one can come along after a CCJ has been made and demand payments outside of the scope of the Judgement! And to come demanding full payment and threatening interest outside of a Judgement is just plain wrong and unlawful!!!

 

I would also advise contacting your local Trading Standards Service about this;

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

Good luck & best wishes, Dave.

 

[bengateway]

Yes, still paying the ccj and the monthly amount set out by the court was minute. When I asked the guy from C.A.B why the repayment figure was so small ,he told me that courts often get annoyed with DCAs for not negotiating correctly with a debtor and therefore waisting court time.In this instance they never replied to me or C.A.B. By the way the C.A.B guy was a Barrister by profession so he certainly new his stuff,but as I say that was nine years ago and counting.

[gizmo111]

How much have you paid and how much is outstanding - you have been paying this for a long time now.

 

I would write to the DCA and ask them on which authority are they acting that is higher than a district judge (re the contractual interest) and send a copy to TS, the FSA the courts and any one else we can think of.

[bengateway]

Just felt I needed to make a point here. I had other debts at the time and over a period of years have managed to negotiate reduced full and final settlements on them all.

This being a ccj is the only one remaining,but because it is a ccj and because a dca is dealing with it I know I have to tread carefully and cover myself every step of the way. Why, oh why, can't dca's just play fare And write something to the affect of >

Dear sir.

We have purchased your debt from your original creditor for a vastly reduced figure as they no longer have any interest in it.

We would like to make a profit on this debt, but due to the reduced purchase figure we won't be greedy and if you can pay 30% of the original debt we will confirm on reciept of same that the debt has been satisfied and no further claims will be made. That way We make a profit,You settle your debt at a reduced ammount,and everyone is happy.

 

Seems simple but then thats me. Getting of my soapbox now but I'm sure you get the jist of what I'm trying to say.

Thanks for your replies to this thread,Please keep them coming.

[gizmo111]

I see what you are getting at and if you know the balance, despite the CCJ you could if you ahd the cash still offer a full and final reduced settlement, you would however have to make sure that you ahd it all writing.

[Sidewinder]

Just interested in reading the comments above and not wishing to hijack this thread, but I have recently had exactly the same situation as this (CCJ paid in accordance with the order, DCA assigned debt as it was not profitable for the OC to collect, DCA tried to increase payments etc). The Courts Service have told me that not only can the DCA not vary the terms, but that once a CCJ has been issued, the creditor may be breaking the law if they pass the debt to a third party. They didn't explain exactly what law, but what exactly is the truth here?

[Curlyben]

Seems I've found my answer on another thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/113992-more-problems-moorcroft-advice.html

posts #2 and #13 covers what I was thinking.

[gizmo111]

Seems I've found my answer on another thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/113992-more-problems-moorcroft-advice.html

posts #2 and #13 covers what I was thinking.

 

 

Curly the link takes me to the main forums.

[Curlyben]

Try ythis one: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/113992-more-problems-moorcroft-advice.html

[gizmo111]

The Courts Service have told me that not only can the DCA not vary the terms, but that once a CCJ has been issued, the creditor may be breaking the law if they pass the debt to a third party. They didn't explain exactly what law, but what exactly is the truth here?

My understanding has always been that they pass the debt on if there is a CCJ but the terms of the CCJ cannot be varied to the debtors detriment.

 

So for example if you still had £1000 outstanding on a CCJ that was being paid at £25 per month and a creditor contacted you and offered a F&F of £500 this would be OK (as long it wasn't harrasing) as it not to the debtors detriment, but they cannot in the same scenario ask you to increase the payment to £26 per month or above.

 

I am not sure what legislation is covered by this, but it is in the back of my mind from when I had many CCJ's and debts.

[Curlyben]

In the case of the OC selling the CCJ'd debt I believe that they have to apply to the court to do so, as it would constitute a variance to the original judgement.

[gizmo111]

In the case of the OC selling the CCJ'd debt I believe that they have to apply to the court to do so, as it would constitute a variance to the original judgement.

 

That makes a little more sense (bear in mind when I had my 9 CCJ's and another £22k of debt on top of them I had never heard of an internetforum, let alone one this good)

How could we find out for definite - any good at research Curly:)

[Curlyben]

I'll have a good dig tomorrow, but I believe that it's related to a Application to Vary Judgement.

 

I'll give my friendly court contact a call tomorrow morning.

[gizmo111]

I'll have a good dig tomorrow, but I believe that it's related to a Application to Vary Judgement.

 

I'll give my friendly court contact a call tomorrow morning.

 

Nice one - thanks;)

[Curlyben]

OK well got no where fast:

Judgments

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex20_0406.pdf

Spoke to Court and they couldn't help so gave me the number for Registry of Judgments, Orders and Fines (RTL Home)

 

Very nice lady there said that YES it is acceptable, but the DCA CANNOT ask for more than the original judgement or vary payment terms.

Obviously a call/letter to the OC would be a good move to ensure that the CCJ has indeed been sold to the DCA.

 

So there you go.

[bengateway]

Wow! Thanks for all the info.

The last thing I want to do is open a jar of worms on this one,but I feel that despite thoughts to the contrary My request to the DCA for A copy of the cca along with deed of assignment could be a good move.

At least I can find out in writing what information and more importantly what rights they have in relation to this debt.

It seem that the original creditors have washed there hands on this,I do know that some six years ago the payment books stopped coming. I phoned the creditor and requested a new payment method as I needed to maintain payments so has not to default,they told me to phone there solicitors who were dealing with the ccj repayments.Guess what ! The solicitors said the creditor had it wrong and that they should be issuing a payment method.In the end I noticed that the payment books were only photo copied duplicates and so did the same thing myself and kept the payment going this way.Crazy thing is I really feel that its only my payments and the fact a ccj has been issued thats keeping this going,as things stand I have a creditor who no longer as any interest in the debt,and a DCA who dont appear to know their legal obligations to me the debtor. I find the whole situation is just going in a big circle to knowhere.

Once again ,Thanks for all your input.

[paulwlton]

As there is a County Court Judgement, which by your own admission you've been paying religiously, asking for the original agreement and deed/certificate of assignment is a pointless exercise as the debt has been enforced by the Court. It will not dilute with age and will not go away until fully satisfied.

 

I totally disagree requesting the original agreement pursuant to sec 77-79 of the CCA will reveal whether there's an interest after judgment clause. If the creditor cannot prove it has the right to apply contractual interest by supplying the agreement he is precluded from enforcing the contract.

[bengateway]

Just to keep things up to date on this thread the DCA has replied to the cca request (some 10 days back ) To the affect of U'mmmm we are looking into your request So clock is ticking. No mention of a ccj from the DCA though so what info do they have on file one asks ???

[bengateway]

Hi all. Have now recieved Credit agreement and Statement of account.

With regards to the deed of assignment The dca states that they are not under any obligation to provide this under S136 of the law of property act and only need to provide a notice of assignment. The reason for this is (Privileged information) I assume that their would be details of the purchase cost and thats what they dont want me to see.

 

Anyway, my Question is are they correct in this,and have they provided me with enough info to prove that they are the sole owners of the debt ??

Or is there a more update law that they should have applied ,with regards to there obligation to provide a deed of assignment. My concern is that I need to verify their legal position on ownership especially as its subject to a ccj.

 

Many thanks for any advise on this.

[Allwood]

Just out of interest has your ccj passed the 6 year period. :?

[bengateway]

Yep Allwood by many years, which I believe means its no longer on record. Point worth a mention here, the statute barred thing does not apply to a ccj they only go away when satisfied. If I am wrong I am sure one of the more knowledgeable on this site will correct me (God bless em)

[Curlyben]

Bengateway, you are quite correct. CCJ are NOT goverened by the Limitations act.

[Allwood]

You are correct it does not go away until it is satisfied but there is nothing stopping you now that you have passed the 6 yr period to offer them a small percentage of the amount that you still owe to them to see if they would accept it as a full and final settlement, no harm in asking.:-?