DLC - Big Problem, Long Post Sorry. Help!!

[sosumi]

I am so sorry this is such a long post... I keep hesitating to write but I desperately need some advice!

I had a credit card A with Citi.

In August of last year I and my husband started a Debt Management Plan with Payplan.

The payments to Citi were proportional, as with the other creditors.

The payment to Citi from Payplan was £33.06.

When Payplan sent out the letters explaining our situation, enclosing our Income and Expenditure, together with the offer of payment, Citi agreed to the offer.

We know this because we received a letter from Payplan, telling us who had agreed and who had responded etc.

Citi Cards agreed to the offer and payment of £33.06.

They continued to charge interest and charges - each month at least £200 was being added to the debt, with just the £33.06 going in.

I wrote to Citi asking them to freeze interest, that we were in a DMP with Payplan. They didn't stop.

In January this year they transferred the debt to Hillesden Securities/DLC.

But the account number of the card changed completely. It became account B. I queried this at the time with both Payplan and DLC. Payplan were understandably keen to have the new account number to keep making the payments. I phoned DLC to check this, and queried the account number change but they had no answers either. I thought I recognised account B's number but couldn't think how. I was very stressed and the main thing was that all the creditors were being paid, even if they transferred to DCAs.

By the time the account was transferred, several hundred pounds had been added by Citi. Although they had agreed the DMP with Payplan, they chose to ignore freezing interest. So, the account transferred owing £12,459.07.

The same day the letter from Citi was sent, Direct Legal and Collections wrote 'introducing' themselves to me.

As I said I spoke to them and queried the account number change, but accepted the fact that the debt was in their hands. The payments from Payplan continued, and for a while I received just statements from DLC: as they appeared to be accepting our payments I thought it was okay.

BUT:

I received a statement dated 18th April 2007 from them, which also had the comment:

‘We are considering terminating your account and passing it to our solicitors. You must contact us on 0870 745 4405 immediately.’

Also dated 18th April 2007, they sent me a letter telling me that the account is about to terminate 'due to the arrears outstanding...

It goes on to tell me what will happen if I don't prevent it - Default on CRF, full outstanding balance due (£12293.53), account passed to legal team.

Then they write:

“To prevent this from happening, we are prepared to accept a figure of £9834.82 in full and final settlement of your liability.”

"Please contact our offices by Wednesday the 25th of April to discuss this matter further."

This letter was headed "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" and, whereas all the other letters I'd received had the 'unknown B' account number on, this simply had their 8-digit reference and their 'client Citifinancial Europe/Associates'. No other account number.

Obviously I couldn't pay this. Sent it to Payplan.

 

Dated 18th May 2007, a letter from them quoting unknown account number B, also 'Our Clients: Hillesden Sec. Ltd (Citifinancial Europe/Associates):

‘You will be aware from our previous letters that your Citifinancial account has now been terminated…’ Followed by threats. Balance £12,260.39.

Letter passed to Payplan.

Dated 1st June 2007, balance still £12,260.39:

‘We have made an application to the local Land Registry and have received formal confirmation that you are the owner of this property.’

‘It is our intention to commence legal proceedings against you for non-payment of the account. Once a Country Court Judgement has been obtained, a further application will be made to secure this debt against your financial interest in this property by way of a Charging Order.’

They go on to say "... We would like to settle this matter amicably and without the need for legal proceedings..."

I phoned Payplan, who said I should phone DLC to ask if there were any problems showing on the account, did Payplan have the correct ref no. for payments etc.

 

I have owned this property since 1984 with my husband, have always lived here. They had no reason to check such details. I believe this was either to scare me into making arrangements outside the DMP, or deliberately misleading in order to attempt a Charging Order. I called their office, and the person I spoke to said there was nothing wrong with my account or payments, but that they’d calculated under the (then) arrangement the account would not be paid fully until 2036. He said that it would take changing the payment to £204.34 a month for the account to be paid in 5 years, otherwise a Charging Order ‘is just a way of securing your debt against your house, then we can accept the DMP arrangements.’

 

We were remortgaging our house so our payments would increase, but I couldn't say by how much at that time.

On 6th June I emailed them to say the remortgage had completed and that their payments will increase to at least £49.32.

They acknowledged the email but nothing more.

 

I felt very strongly that their behaviour re. the land registry was both unnecessary and intrusive, so I sent them CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests.

Their replies were dated 12th June. They sent me a letter confirming they would attempt to get the CCA, or a 'true copy'. They sent me another letter enclosing their 'database' - log of communications up to that point. It confirmed that they knew my address all along, my phone calls to them, that Payplan were dealing, and at the moment my letter arrived they had written 'HOLD ALL ACTION' - in response to CCA.

They had been moving ahead with legal action, despite my email (the Payplan payment has actually risen to about £76), but stopped waiting response from 'client' (Citi??) re. CCA.

They sent a follow-up letter on 3rd July 2007, to say account is 'on hold' until they get a copy of the original agreement from Citi. They will update in 21 days.

 

Today is 24th July. They have not sent an update. They have not sent a CCA.

I'm sorry this post is so long, but I hope you understand my situation.

They refer to the 'unknown B' account number in all correspondence with me, except in the 'Without Prejudice' offer of a full and final. If their 'client' is Citi, how do they have this authority? Why did they write 'Without Prejudice', and why did they only refer to their 8-digit reference number and not the 16-digit 'unknown B' account number on the letter?

 

They (Hillesden) placed a default on my credit reference file on 15/5/2007, in their name. I have checked my credit report from Experian, and there was an account with Citifinancial Europe PLC, a credit/store card, started 1999, Credit Limit £4,400, SETTLED on 1/04/2002.

 

Please can someone help me with this? Our monthly payment by Standing Order to Payplan went out last Friday. When they receive it, usually the next day they will make payments to all our creditors, including DLC! We do not want to stop payments to creditors, but I do not think DLC should receive a payment, given all of the above. I phoned Payplan yesterday and tried to explain to someone, who said she would email my Case Officer. I haven't heard back yet.

I am also concerned because Justabank is now showing my 'account number' with DLC as my OLD credit card account number A - the correct one - but this has never been used by DLC, wasn't used by Citi as they passed the account to DLC, and hasn't been used by Payplan since the account transferred to DLC!

I have a horrible feeling that something's going on and I don't know what it is!!

 

I requested and received a copy of DLC's Complaints Procedure, but not sure now whether to compain to them first or go straight to another authority.

My income is made up of Disability Living Allowance and Severe Disablement Allowance. We are committed to our Debt Management Plan and keen to pay everyone back, but this is not right, surely?

 

I am wondering if the Account B refers to the settled account?

I have seen a letter here that forbids a DCA selling your debt on to another company while it is in dispute. Could anybody tell me where it is?

How do I stop Payplan sending them a payment, and would that be the right thing to do?

 

If you've read this far, many many thanks. I have waited a long time to get this off my chest! Any advice very much welcomed!

[PriorityOne]

I am so sorry this is such a long post... I keep hesitating to write but I desperately need some advice!

 

Wecome to CAG....

 

I had a credit card A with Citi.

In August of last year I and my husband started a Debt Management Plan with Payplan.

The payments to Citi were proportional, as with the other creditors.

The payment to Citi from Payplan was £33.06.

When Payplan sent out the letters explaining our situation, enclosing our Income and Expenditure, together with the offer of payment, Citi agreed to the offer.

We know this because we received a letter from Payplan, telling us who had agreed and who had responded etc.

Citi Cards agreed to the offer and payment of £33.06.

They continued to charge interest and charges - each month at least £200 was being added to the debt, with just the £33.06 going in.

 

Citi need a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in order for you to re-claim all unlawful charges on this account. I will find the template for you later....

 

I wrote to Citi asking them to freeze interest, that we were in a DMP with Payplan. They didn't stop.

In January this year they transferred the debt to Hillesden Securities/DLC.

But the account number of the card changed completely. It became account B.

 

This may be because Hillesden have bought it.... time will tell.

 

I queried this at the time with both Payplan and DLC. Payplan were understandably keen to have the new account number to keep making the payments. I phoned DLC to check this, and queried the account number change but they had no answers either. They're unlikelty to tell you that they have bought an account for peanuts, when they're intent on chasing you for the full amount. I thought I recognised account B's number but couldn't think how. I was very stressed and the main thing was that all the creditors were being paid, even if they transferred to DCAs.

By the time the account was transferred, several hundred pounds had been added by Citi. As said, you can re-claim these back. Although they had agreed the DMP with Payplan, they chose to ignore freezing interest. So, the account transferred owing £12,459.07.

The same day the letter from Citi was sent, Direct Legal and Collections wrote 'introducing' themselves to me. Citi have assigned the account...

As I said I spoke to them and queried the account number change, but accepted the fact that the debt was in their hands. The payments from Payplan continued, and for a while I received just statements from DLC: as they appeared to be accepting our payments I thought it was okay.

BUT:

I received a statement dated 18th April 2007 from them, which also had the comment:

‘We are considering terminating your account and passing it to our solicitors. You must contact us on 0870 745 4405 immediately.’ The bullying has started...

Also dated 18th April 2007, they sent me a letter telling me that the account is about to terminate 'due to the arrears outstanding...

It goes on to tell me what will happen if I don't prevent it - Default on CRF, full outstanding balance due (£12293.53), account passed to legal team.

Then they write:

“To prevent this from happening, we are prepared to accept a figure of £9834.82 in full and final settlement of your liability.” Hmmm... there's a whack of charges on this account anyway.

"Please contact our offices by Wednesday the 25th of April to discuss this matter further." DO NOT DO THIS !! :o DO NOT EVER 'PHONE A DCA !!... they will tell you all kinds of bowlarks in order to intimidate you into parting with money. Don't ever do it.

This letter was headed "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" because it's a nastigram, that's why.. and, whereas all the other letters I'd received had the 'unknown B' account number on, this simply had their 8-digit reference and their 'client Citifinancial Europe/Associates'. No other account number.

Obviously I couldn't pay this. Sent it to Payplan.

 

Dated 18th May 2007, a letter from them quoting unknown account number B, also 'Our Clients: Hillesden Sec. Ltd (Citifinancial Europe/Associates):

‘You will be aware from our previous letters that your Citifinancial account has now been terminated…’ Followed by threats. Balance £12,260.39.

Letter passed to Payplan.

Dated 1st June 2007, balance still £12,260.39:

‘We have made an application to the local Land Registry and have received formal confirmation that you are the owner of this property.’ More intimidation and threats....

‘It is our intention to commence legal proceedings against you for non-payment of the account. Once a Country Court Judgement has been obtained, a further application will be made to secure this debt against your financial interest in this property by way of a Charging Order.’ They would need to get a CCJ before they can apply for a charging order... and we can stop this.

They go on to say "... We would like to settle this matter amicably and without the need for legal proceedings..." They can't be that sure of themselves then...

I phoned Payplan, who said I should phone DLC to ask if there were any problems showing on the account, did Payplan have the correct ref no. for payments etc.

 

With all due respect, Payplan have been very slack in their advice to you so far.... and have passed the buck back to you time and time again.

 

I have owned this property since 1984 with my husband, have always lived here. They had no reason to check such details. I believe this was either to scare me into making arrangements outside the DMP, or deliberately misleading in order to attempt a Charging Order. They can do it though.... and they can also go for a Charging Order, which is why you need to act now. I called their office, and the person I spoke to said there was nothing wrong with my account or payments, but that they’d calculated under the (then) arrangement the account would not be paid fully until 2036. He said that it would take changing the payment to £204.34 a month for the account to be paid in 5 years, otherwise a Charging Order ‘is just a way of securing your debt against your house, then we can accept the DMP arrangements.’ Bowlarks.... don't 'phone them ever again !

 

We were remortgaging our house so our payments would increase, but I couldn't say by how much at that time.

On 6th June I emailed them to say the remortgage had completed and that their payments will increase to at least £49.32.

They acknowledged the email but nothing more.

 

I won't comment on this because you've done it now....

 

I felt very strongly that their behaviour re. the land registry was both unnecessary and intrusive, so I sent them CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests.

Their replies were dated 12th June. They sent me a letter confirming they would attempt to get the CCA, or a 'true copy'. I see you already know where the links are then... were these templates from this site... and did you send them by rec. delivery ? Do you still have the receipts ?They sent me another letter enclosing their 'database' - log of communications up to that point. It confirmed that they knew my address all along, my phone calls to them, that Payplan were dealing, and at the moment my letter arrived they had written 'HOLD ALL ACTION' - in response to CCA.

They had been moving ahead with legal action, despite my email (the Payplan payment has actually risen to about £76), but stopped waiting response from 'client' (Citi??) re. CCA.

They sent a follow-up letter on 3rd July 2007, to say account is 'on hold' until they get a copy of the original agreement from Citi. They will update in 21 days.

 

If they haven't got the Agreement, then they have no legal right to collect any payments from you whatsoever.

 

Today is 24th July. They have not sent an update. They have not sent a CCA. They are in default of a legal request. Stop all payments now.

I'm sorry this post is so long, but I hope you understand my situation.

They refer to the 'unknown B' account number in all correspondence with me, except in the 'Without Prejudice' offer of a full and final. If their 'client' is Citi, how do they have this authority? They could be acting on behalf of Citi, but DCAs often come out with this rubbish when they've bought accounts as well... Without a CCA though, they are stuffed.... because there is nothing to re-enforce in court. Why did they write 'Without Prejudice', and why did they only refer to their 8-digit reference number and not the 16-digit 'unknown B' account number on the letter?

 

They (Hillesden) placed a default on my credit reference file on 15/5/2007, in their name. I have checked my credit report from Experian, and there was an account with Citifinancial Europe PLC, a credit/store card, started 1999, Credit Limit £4,400, SETTLED on 1/04/2002. Suggests that it was sold... which is why they are able to bring legal action against you in their own right (if they had a CCA, of course... which they don't !)

 

Please can someone help me with this? Our monthly payment by Standing Order to Payplan went out last Friday.Cancel the SO... they are in default of your CCA request. When they receive it, usually the next day they will make payments to all our creditors, including DLC! We do not want to stop payments to creditors, I'm not suggesting that you cancel payment everyone else, but can you arrange this yourself ? but I do not think DLC should receive a payment, given all of the above. I phoned Payplan yesterday and tried to explain to someone, who said she would email my Case Officer. I haven't heard back yet. No surprise there...

I am also concerned because Justabank is now showing my 'account number' with DLC as my OLD credit card account number A - the correct one - but this has never been used by DLC, wasn't used by Citi as they passed the account to DLC, and hasn't been used by Payplan since the account transferred to DLC!

I have a horrible feeling that something's going on and I don't know what it is!!

 

I requested and received a copy of DLC's Complaints Procedure, but not sure now whether to compain to them first or go straight to another authority.

My income is made up of Disability Living Allowance and Severe Disablement Allowance. These should not be taken into account when assessing income/expenditure anyway. We are committed to our Debt Management Plan and keen to pay everyone back, but this is not right, surely?

 

I am wondering if the Account B refers to the settled account?

I have seen a letter here that forbids a DCA selling your debt on to another company while it is in dispute. Could anybody tell me where it is?

How do I stop Payplan sending them a payment, and would that be the right thing to do?

 

If you've read this far, many many thanks. I have waited a long time to get this off my chest! Any advice very much welcomed!

 

Phew !!

 

Ok... I won't go and get template letters, unless the requests you made were not from this site. If you didn't send them by rec. delivery... then you will probably need to send them again anyway. See what the others think.

 

How much is the true figure outstanding, minus all those charges, do you think ?... approximately ?

 

Hillesden cannot take legal action against you whilst in default of a CCA request. Neither are they legally entitled to collect payments from you. I will find the template letter that I sent to one of mine when they tried this one on me... similar scenario... going for a CCJ and Charging Order, etc. Haven't heard from them in months and now have it in writing that all legal action has been stopped.... .... as no-one has a CCA !

 

Keep your chin up ! .... will be back in a minute or so...

[PriorityOne]

Ok... I am assuming that you have not yet had any contact from their solicitors... only threats. I need you to confirm that you have proof of the date when the CCA request was made... in the form of a rec. delivery receipt, before we can go any further. Did you also enclose a chq./PO for the £1 fee for this ?

 

If so... send the following to Hillesden by rec. delivery. Keep a copy.

 

Dear XXX

 

Account (whichever one they've used)

 

I no longer acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

I refer to your letter of xx/xx/2007, in which you state your intention to commence legal proceedings against me for non-payment on the above account.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that payments have been sent to you through my Payplan account up until this time, your company is now in serious default of my legal request for a Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974), received by yourselves on xx/xx/2007. Furthermore, whilst you remain in default of my legal request, no further payments will be forthcoming.

 

Any further communication from yourselves, whilst in default of my request will be forwarded to Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully/sincerely,

 

[PriorityOne]

Need to go out.... will be back later....

[dpick]

Hi totally agree with priorityone the only thing I can add now is if the DCA rings you don't get into conversation just keep quoting " the account is in dispute I will only correspond by letter" it does not matter what the DCA threatens on the phone just keep repeating that same mantra. They will just put the phone down and will have to write in the end or as MBNA with me have heard nothing for ages.

 

silence is golden dpick:)

 

and of course subscribing will offer any help I can

[sosumi]

Wow P1, many thanks!!

Yes, I used the templates for the CCA and the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) from here - the letter I couldn't find was one I'm sure I saw here recently, to stop a DCA selling the account on to another DCA, it was in a thread, but I can't keep track here very well.

We have the receipt for the letter I sent to Direct Legal and Collections, sent by Special Delivery. They wrote back confirming receipt and also the two postal orders we enclosed - £1 for the CCA, £10 for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

I have tried so hard to get my head round this. When we started the DMP with Payplan last year we were told initially to forward all letters to them, then later to make a note and file them, as after that point they wouldn't keep statements etc. I have honestly not been well through all of this - the stress has been terrible, and I suffer from mental illness (that I've been having treatment for, for many years) - hence the state benefits I get. We trusted everything to Payplan, and sent anything legal to their legal department, but I think I've kept all the copies and I don't think we received anything from DLC Solicitors - I'm not sure though. We had some via 1st Credit, TSB and I think Buchanon Clark, but the CCAs I've put in my sig. here sent them quiet.

I think I have to make a decision about Payplan.

Thanks for your replies, and thanks dpick:).

We changed our phone to ex-directory when we started so we haven't had the phone calls that usually drive people crazy - I'm already crazy anyway. But all this has been so bad for us both. It's been wearing us down. And although I write, keeping this stuff with DLC bottled up has really got to me.

We thought that a DMP with Payplan would ease the problems and it has, in a lot of ways, but I feel like a halfway house, trying to update Payplan etc all the time. We're doing the best we can.

[sosumi]

dpick - many thanks

I feel so strongly about this stuff with Hillesden/DLC that I'm wondering whether we should start a DIY DMP instead. It's hard most times to get in touch with Payplan, and though all the advisors there are great, they must have a huge workload and our advisors keep changing.

We managed to get a remortgage and that helped a lot, but we still have 12 other creditors, and all we want is the chance to be left alone while we pay them back.

[sosumi]

Priority One, thanks for that letter. I'm going to post it today!

[sosumi]

An update - just spoke with hubby to Payplan who agree that we should dispute this with DLC, and they won't send them any money.

I am shaking like a leaf!!

So we'll send them (DLC) P1's letter, and also send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to Citifinancial to find out exactly what happened.

[rory32]

Well done. Once you start to gain control of this you will feel so much better.

[dpick]

An update - just spoke with hubby to Payplan who agree that we should dispute this with DLC, and they won't send them any money.

I am shaking like a leaf!!

So we'll send them (DLC) P1's letter, and also send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to Citifinancial to find out exactly what happened.

 

Hi again my DMP said to cover any problems with changing my income and expenditure information I could have the withheld payments put into a holding account or paid to my other creditors.

 

all the best will keep watching dpick:)

[PriorityOne]

Have just read throught your last few posts... you're doing great !! Fantastic that Payplan have agreed to stop payments to DLC as well... you need to get this in writing from them, if possible.

 

Keep any further communication that Hillesden/DLC send you... and if they contact you by 'phone, make a note of the date and time of all calls received. Don't feel obliged to talk to them... just hang up as soon as you realise who it is. There are letters to get rid of the harrassing 'phone calls anyway, should you need them.

 

We are all here to support you.... so if you get worried about anything, come back on here for help/moral support. Once you get these muppets off your back.... you may feel strong enough to take on the rest, but one at a time for now.

 

As for Payplan, you may decide to stay with them if you wish... some people prefer it that way. I have always handled my own though, so it can be done.

 

Chin up....

[sosumi]

We posted the letter to DLC this afternoon. We both feel pretty light-headed!

I do a lot of writing, but writing that post here today has to be one of the hardest (and longest!) things I've ever written - all that stuff with DLC just felt wrong, and I wasn't sure it would make sense.

Your help has turned our lives right round:)

I'm going to send the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Citi tomorrow, and then go to Trading Standards and the Information Commissioner about DLC?

I know I saw a post by ODC a few days ago on one of the threads, that if only the DCAs would stop treating people so badly, we wouldn't all be searching Google for help with them? They're hounding people to death, and we're just lucky they haven't had our phone number!! It's completely wrong, and they have to change!

Meantime, if anyone wants to see a copy of DLC's written Complaints Procedure, I could post it up here?

This is more than a complaint, so I'm going straight to whatever authorities I can. Thanks again, you're stars!

[PriorityOne]

Hi again Sosumi,

 

Keep hold of DLCs Complaints info.... you may need it, if they kick off. The Financial Ombudsman Service is able to investigate complaints for you... but only when you have gone through a company's Complaints Procedure and given them a chance to resolve the matter for you (yeah right! ). In the meantime, stockpile any/all evidence against them... letters for payment, any logs of attempted 'phone calls, etc.

 

If/when you make a complaint and they fail to resolve it.... it will cost DLC £400 to have the FOS conduct an investigation into their activities anyway.. ... so they need to start being nice to you....

[sosumi]

Received this letter yesterday (my 2nd ("within 21 days") update re. missing CCA:

Hillesden1022anon.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

They got my letter (ie. the letter that PriorityOne wrote for me ) yesterday.

This morning, I had their reply:

Hillesden1019anon.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

I believe I began my complaint to them on 9th June 2007, when I stated in the covering letter,

"Regarding your letter of 1st June 2007. There are a number of issues regarding your recent communications with me that I wish to address. However I would initially like you to provide me with the information set out in the two letters I have enclosed, for which I have also enclosed the relevant payments (CCA and SAR letters)."

AS they have 8 weeks to resolve the complaint, following their complaints procedure, and the complaint began 9th June, I'll write another letter to them addressing all of the issues I've mentioned. They must therefore reply before 8th September. Beyond that point, I'll be taking the issues up with a number of authorities.

The irony is, that had they accepted the DMP with Payplan, they would be receiving a payment each month from us (currently £74.34) for the duration of the DMP - at the moment that would be just over 13 years. We wouldn't have queried the changed account number, nor would we have asked them to prove their 'ownership of the debt'. I probably wouldn't have read as many posts on here as I have done, and I wouldn't have been angered as I am about their many types of intimidation and harassment, used on people posting here and elsewhere. I wouldn't have become as 'interested' in their tactics, and the tactics used by other DCAs to drive people to the edge. I'd be concentrating on writing to provide some sort of income to pay our DMP off quicker - short stories, longer fiction.

Instead, their greed and questionable activities have my full attention.

I have a few contacts here and there. Those that I don't have yet, I will find. Although I've been very ill myself for years, my background is working with the mentally ill and I'm horrified at the methods employed by DCAs.

They have to change. Anything I can do to help that process of change, I will.

 

[PriorityOne]

You're beginning to sound a lot more positve now Sosumi... and that's great !!

[sosumi]

I tried phoning Trading Standards, tried to explain but the conversation was very weird. As soon as I mentioned 'Debt Management Plan with Payplan' she seemed to lose track completely. I don't think I explained very well. I had bronchitis though, and was very anxious, but I wasn't losing my temper - she was. She was looking up Payplan on her computer as we spoke. She said 'So you send your money to Payplan and they take a cut before they send out the payments?'. I tried telling her no, but she just seemed lost in her own vortex. So - not much help there then. I ended up apologising if I sounded anxious, and bronchitic... she suggested a cup of tea and a sit down. She also suggested National Debt Line - that wasn't what I was calling about, but she insisted she did understand :-?:-?

I mentioned the Office of Fair Trading, but she said she didn't think they could help. I came off the phone feeling punch-drunk.

We requested all of our CRFs last week. But I'd seen my report from Experian - Hillesden (DLC) updated my 'default' with them on 5th August.

 

So, to recap. I had a credit card with Citi. When we started with Payplan's DMP they agreed to the arrangement. They were paid monthly by Payplan, but added interest and charges anyway. Then, using an entirely different credit card number, they assigned the debt (now increased by at least £800) to DLC. DLC accepted the arrangement for a few months, then decided they didn't want to, made me a 'full and final offer' of just under £10,000 (notably lacking any Citi Financial card/account number) - which they knew I couldn't do anything about. Then they started the process of taking me to court for a Charging Order. I sent them a CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). They don't have a CCA. They placed a default on my credit file in May. They updated it 5th August. The account that I was paying to Citi is not the account that was transferred to them. They have done so many wrong things it's hard to know where to start. I feel I should do something about this, but we have no spare money for a solicitor. I just want to take the whole thing and put it in front of somebody who understands. We have been paying them money for months. If their 'clients' are Citi, then that money should rightfully be with Citi. And our complaint should also go to Citi, for agreeing to the DMP then adding all that interest.

If that woman didn't understand, then we need to find someone who does understand, if only for the sake of my sanity!!

Should we just go to the police?

Any suggestions would be appreciated v. much.

[PriorityOne]

I tried phoning Trading Standards, tried to explain but the conversation was very weird. As soon as I mentioned 'Debt Management Plan with Payplan' she seemed to lose track completely. I don't think I explained very well. I had bronchitis though, and was very anxious, but I wasn't losing my temper - she was. She was looking up Payplan on her computer as we spoke. She said 'So you send your money to Payplan and they take a cut before they send out the payments?'. I tried telling her no, but she just seemed lost in her own vortex. So - not much help there then. I ended up apologising if I sounded anxious, and bronchitic... she suggested a cup of tea and a sit down. She also suggested National Debt Line - that wasn't what I was calling about, but she insisted she did understand :-?:-?

In my experience, TS are a waste of space.... but because the only way to increase their awareness is to report these companies when they stuff up on a CCA request, it's just something that needs to be done.

I mentioned the Office of Fair Trading, but she said she didn't think they could help. I came off the phone feeling punch-drunk. She's probably right there as well....

We requested all of our CRFs last week. But I'd seen my report from Experian - Hillesden (DLC) updated my 'default' with them on 5th August.

If there's no CCA, then this is very naughty. They have no business to update any info. on you if they can't substantiate that they have a legal right to collect from you in the first place.

So, to recap. I had a credit card with Citi. When we started with Payplan's DMP they agreed to the arrangement. They were paid monthly by Payplan, but added interest and charges anyway. Then, using an entirely different credit card number, they assigned the debt (now increased by at least £800) to DLC. DLC accepted the arrangement for a few months, then decided they didn't want to, made me a 'full and final offer' of just under £10,000 (notably lacking any Citi Financial card/account number) - which they knew I couldn't do anything about. Then they started the process of taking me to court for a Charging Order. I sent them a CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). They don't have a CCA. They placed a default on my credit file in May. They updated it 5th August. The account that I was paying to Citi is not the account that was transferred to them. It probably is the same account, but they probably have a separate ref. number of their own for it. They have done so many wrong things it's hard to know where to start. I feel I should do something about this, but we have no spare money for a solicitor. There is little point in going to see a solicitor... as he/she is likely to take your cash and tell you no more than you would get for free on here. I just want to take the whole thing and put it in front of somebody who understands. We have been paying them money for months. If their 'clients' are Citi, then that money should rightfully be with Citi. Not if Citi have sold the account, it wouldn't.... and this could also explain the different account number that DLC have And our complaint should also go to Citi, for agreeing to the DMP then adding all that interest. The account sounds as if it could have been sold after they accepted your arrangement with Payplan.... but some of these companies are so incestuous in their relationships with one another, it's hard to tell.

If that woman didn't understand, then we need to find someone who does understand, if only for the sake of my sanity!!

Should we just go to the police?

Any suggestions would be appreciated v. much.

 

Susomi, while there is no CCA... no-one can enforce anything. Once they default and you stop all further payments, the account cannot be re-enforced without it.

 

Make sure you keep hold of every bit of correspondence that anyone sends you.... because if they do start harrassing you after the period of criminal default (calendar month after the 12 working days), then TS should then take you a bit more seriously.... providing that you don't contact them over the 'phone !! They will need to see copies of all your evidence.... and give you a written response to it.

 

[louiboy]

You've had some good advise from the others.

 

If DLC haven't complied with the CCA agreement request the account is in dispute and in default of a legal request.

 

If Hillesden/DLC are supplying the defaults then they probably own the account or the one with the wrong Credit card number.

 

However without the agreement they should not be providing default information to the CRA's.

 

Send a written complaint to Northampton Council Trading Standards. The home authority for DLC. They'll just add it to the DLC pile and forward to the OFT.

 

Trading Standards Services

Wootton Hall Park

Northampton

Northamptonshire

NN4 0GB

 

Sit back and await the results of the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Citi Cards.

[sosumi]

Many thanks P1 and louiboy. I'll do that in the morning.

Louiboy - do you mean I should SAR Citi Financial? I got an SAR from DLC/Hillesden almost by return of post - dated 12th june 2007. It shows they knew my address all along, but there's an entry that says 'Customer Address Changed. Previous details were:

Exactly the same address that they already had - and it's right there on the SAR! It bothers me a lot, because it looks as though an 'address change' was used in some way, to enable them to access the Land Registry about me. There has never been any kind of secret about my address - I live here with hubby and have done since 1984!

 

So where they write, in an earlier letter "As you have failed to maintain acceptable payment instalments against your account, we have made an application to the local Land Registry and have received formal confirmation that you are the owner of this property.", they appear to have misled the Land Registry into allowing them access about me? Why? It's never been a secret!! We're on the Electoral Roll!

[louiboy]

SAR citi - find out if there any charges that could be claimed back, removed from the account or any other useful information.

[PriorityOne]

So where they write, in an earlier letter "As you have failed to maintain acceptable payment instalments against your account, we have made an application to the local Land Registry and have received formal confirmation that you are the owner of this property.", they appear to have misled the Land Registry into allowing them access about me? Why? It's never been a secret!! We're on the Electoral Roll!

 

Accessing the Land Registry is not difficult to do.... all they are doing is trying to give you the heebie jeebies about getting a property charge if you don't pay. It doesn't mean they've got any hold over your home or can get a property charge just like that.... there is a process to go through and they would need a CCJ first.

[sosumi]

Okay, I'll do that. Many thanks - you're Megastars!!

[sosumi]

Sorry about the shortness of my response last night. Sometimes my meds kick in earlier than I expect - and my brain stops functioning!

P1 and Louiboy - I really appreciate everything you've said. The problem (for me) has been the number of creditors who passed us on to DCAs, and although I think Payplan are excellent, working with them on this has been difficult. - Hence our coming out of Payplan.

 

I was watching Breakfast News this morning and the revelation that anyone can pay £3 and access another person's details on the Land Registry. ??

This is truly scandalous. Presumably it's pretty much an open door for fraudsters. Hopefully something will be done before the day's end.

 

In any case, it means that Hillesden/DLC 'dressed up' the letter to me to suggest they'd done something 'official' - or they paid £3 to use what should be confidential information, as a means of trying to secure a legal charge on our house.

 

I notice that all of our creditors have gone very quiet. We made it very clear to all of them, when we sent our cheques and covering letters, that we take the actions of DCAs very seriously indeed. What DCAs do - or get away with - it has to stop.

[sosumi]

Am now in contact with the OC about what they've done.