The Druid v Barclays Bank

[The Druid]

I am starting this as a new thread (for which i apollogise) so that people new to this malarky may follow a step-by-step case as it happens, and maybe learn from my adventures or mistakes, whichever the case may be !

 

Barclays bank PLC

1, Churchill Place,

London,

E14 5HP

 

[DATE]

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account since 1st, January, 2000. Alternatively, a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

[name]

Here is the letter i received in reply today ( 29th June) :

 

Dear Mr ******

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT

 

We refer to your letter of 20th June, which was passed to this department for comment due to your request for certain information, relating to bank charges, under the terms of the Data Protection Act ["the Data Protection Act"]

 

Please be aware that the Bank is not under an obligation to present information according to any particular format. Therefore, your request to assemble a schedule of charges is turned aside. You may, of course, obtain this data from copy statements and these will be supplied to you shortly without charge on this occaision. As the Bank is providing the copy statements on a complimentary basis your payment is returned herewith.

 

As regards your mention of "manual intervention" , the Data Protection Act does not oblige the Bank to comment about internal policies and procedures. Furthermore, in the context of managing day to day transactions arising from out of order accounts, the Bank does not hold the information you have requested in a form that would be covered by the DPA . Whilst aggregated information is retained for statistical purposes, this would not constitute "personal data" under the DPA and therefore would not be covered by s.7 DPA subject access request. For the avoidance of doubt, the fact that we do not generally record information in a way that is caught by the provisions of the DPA , is in no way an admission that there was no such manual intervention .

Yours sincerely,

Peter Townsend,

Manager, Barclays Data Protection

 

OK. Is this just Barclaybank gobbledegook, or can they actually get away with this ? As previously asked, what do i do now ? Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

[The Druid]

Reply received from spiceskull (thank you m8 )

 

Yes, it is the response most people get. However, the wording suggests that Barclays are not under any legal duty to provide any information...

 

The first part - transaction history. The request was for a schedule, or failing that, copy statements. The response is worded in such a way as to imply that the bank is not obliged to provide any information whatsoever. They then state that you can work this out for yourself, and, as a huge favour, the bank will provide the statements allowing for this, free of charge.

 

The favour is false, as the request was for transaction history OR copy statements - the bank is obliged to provide at least the raw data in one form or another, so in this they can be deemed to have complied...

 

Regarding manual intervention - the response is a red herring, and again seems to suggest that the bank is not obliged to provide the information requested. What was requested was evidence/notes of manual intervention, or confirmation that no such intervention occurred.

 

The bank reads this as a request for details of internal policies and procedures, and then goes on to deny this request...obviously. They then go on to further deflect the query by stating that even were this information available, it would not be covered by Data Protection Act.

 

However, the very last part "is in no way an admission that there was no such manual intervention" is an admission of sorts that they will not comply with the actual request in respect on manual intervention. This in itself is not an answer - you asked, quite plainly "Did manual intervention take place - yes or no? If yes, then provide details, and if no, then please confirm"

 

The bank has not answered this question satisfactorily, so I would suggest that you make this point to the bank, and remind them that the 40 days is running out.

 

What a load of gobbledygook, and an attempt to confuse what is a very simple request...

 

[The Druid]

2nd letter to Barclays :

 

Ok . Here's a copy of the letter sent back to Barclays after receiving their monumental piece of misdirection :-

 

"Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

With reference to your letter, dated 27th June, 2006, received today , my request was for details concerning any manual intervention by any person , or member of your staff or , if there was no intervention of any kind , confirmation of the same .

I asked , quite plainly , "Did manual intervention take place - yes or no ? If yes , then supply details , and if no , then please confirm. This you have singularly failed to do .

You have not answered my request satisfactorily , so i therefore remind you that your 40 days is running out . I deem my initial letter to you as having been received by yourselves on the 26th June , 2006 . You therefore have untill the Saturday , 5th August , 2006 to comply with my request. I re - enclose cheque No xxxxxx for the sum of £10 , for which i will require a receipt. I also enclose a copy of my original request .

Yours sincerely,"

PICK THE BONES OUT OF THAT BUGGER !!!!! you (edit) B******S !!

 

Will keep you all posted as to further developements.

P.S. Where are these "scales" i need to click cillit ??

P.P.S. i didn't include the "EDIT b******s bit in the letter , although i was sorely tempted to !! LOL

 

 

Edit due to liberlous comment

[The Druid]

Here is the reply i received from Barclays to my second letter :

 

"Dear Mr ******

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT - Account ********

 

We have received your letter of 30th June , which is requesting further information.

 

With reference to your subject access request under the above legislation , we are pleased to inform you that your request is currently underway . In consequence , any material that qualifies for disclosure as your " personal data " will be sent to you within the statutory 40 calender - day period .

Yours sincerely

P.Townsend

 

So, there you have it. Looks to me as though someone at Barclays has had to eat a modest portion of " humble pie ". GOOD !! Lets hope i can get them to choke on the whole damm pie !!

WATCH THIS SPACE !!!!

[The Druid]

Just a quick update. Nothing received form Barclays since last reply. Their deadline is Saturday 5th August. Will keep you all posted.

[The Druid]

OK, just received this letter and 4 years worth of gumph from Barclays today. Remember, i asked for 6 years worth !!

 

Dear Mr ******

DATA PROTECTION ACT - Account ********

 

I am pleased to enclose copies of information held by the bank that relates to you.

 

If this information does not fully reflect the scope of your expectations, please indicate which additional areas of the Barclays group that are relevant to your requirements; for example, the Woolwhich, Barclaycard, Barclays Insurance Services Ltd., Barvlays Stockbrokers Ltd., etc.

 

I have also enclosed some general information about the purposes for which the data is processed and an explanation of the bank's credit scoring systems. The bank is obliged to provide this information even though some of these matters may not specifically relate to your personal circumstances.

 

In the event that you consider any item of informationto be incorrect, please contact your local Barclays branch.

Yours sincerely,

Sharon Caffery

SUBJECT ACCESS MANAGER

 

I received a DHL package that nearly gave me a hernia, full of reams of paper that i had not requested. But, the important information, or some of it, was included, copies of the letters sent to me, telling me how much they were charging me, for sending me the letters !!!! As previously stated, i am still without copies of letters for the first 2 years which i shall be requesting in my next letter to Barclays, plus copies of ALL my bank statements for the last 6 years.

QUESTION: Am i being unreasonable in expecting Barclays to send the statements after my original request? After all, they will contain all the information i would need in asessing how much they owe me. Secondly, is this information covered under the Data Protection Act, and does the SAME 40 day deadline still apply, from my original request?

[The Druid]

Just a quick post script. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to how you use a spreadsheet, (i'm an online gamer)!! So, if anybody could give me a few pointers i would be very much obliged. Thank you.

[The Druid]

Letter sent back to Barclays after receiving data package:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Subject Data Protection Act - Access To Data

I refer you to my letter dated 30.06.06 ( a copy of which i have enclosed for your convenience ) in which I asked for confirmation of any manual intervention that may, or may not, have taken place with regard to my account. I also asked you to supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account since 1st, January, 2000. Or, alternatively, a complete set of bank statements for that period.

Not only have you failed to send me all the information i requested, specifically, a complete set of bank statements for the last SIX YEARS (see above) but you have also only sent copies of letters for 4 years only ( see above).

I would, again, respectfully remind you, that your 40 day deadline expires on Saturday, 5th August, 2006 as per the requirements of the Data protection Act 1998. I will, therefore, expect this omission on your part to be satisfactorily rectified by that date. Again, i also require a receipt for the £10 fee which i enclosed.

Yours sincerely,

 

WATCH THIS SPACE !!!!!!!! LOL

 

 

 

 

[Nightstar]

Nuff Messing about, report them to DPA Commision after 40 days is up.........

[The Druid]

Friday, 4th August.

Well, the stuff i asked for arrived this morning. The B******S just snuck in under the wire. After a preliminary tally, i reckon they owe me approx £2,500. Will keep you all posted!!

[mrpromiscous]

Hi mate, I,ve discussed this already on another thread but thought I'd add it here for others to ponder.... I never sent a SAR to Barclays instead i requested the statements over the phone... it cost me only £5 not the usuall £10 and I recieved the lot within 10 working days...........

 

MrP

[The Druid]

Doing this one by the book mate. Then people who are starting out can have a step-by-step plan of how to do it. But, much obliged for yer input. Thank you.

[Warms]

Doing this one by the book mate. Then people who are starting out can have a step-by-step plan of how to do it. But, much obliged for yer input. Thank you.

I appreciate this so much, Druid!!!

Taking on Barclaycard myself on Monday, so I am a bit nervous, and this thread is very encouraging.

GOOD LUCK!

[The Druid]

Don't you worry, whoever you are. If people can learn from what i'm doing, good. The easier it is made for people to win back from these EDIT EDIT the better.

 

 

Edit due to liberlous comment

[emmabk]

hello how far are on are you ? i am at about the same stage and yes this is encouraging!!!! and as for the spread sheet?????? confused very, my problem i am having is i had various rates of authorised overdrafts and obviusly some unauthorised, but interest charged for all of the DR bits on my statement.

any sugggestions?

your help would be appaerciated.

regards emma

[The Druid]

Hello Emma, If you follow this thread you'll be able to tell exactly how far i've got. Had occaision to call the Bank a few times today, and i get a definate feeling that they know something is up!! ( You could almost feel 'em squirming over the phone ) !! LOL

At the moment i'm going through 6 years worth of statements, figuring out just exactly how much they purloined off of me, and starting to wrestle with this spread-sheet thingy !!!

Emma, whatever happens in your case, DON'T LET THEM INTIMIDATE YOU. Stick to yer guns kiddo, make 'em wish they'de never thought of taking up banking for a living in the first place !!! LOL

[4kidsat147]

hello how far are on are you ? i am at about the same stage and yes this is encouraging!!!! and as for the spread sheet?????? confused very, my problem i am having is i had various rates of authorised overdrafts and obviusly some unauthorised, but interest charged for all of the DR bits on my statement.

any sugggestions?

your help would be appaerciated.

regards emma

 

I've just left all those charges out.......they'll only rack up to about £15 anyway in my case and it wasn't worth the headache trying to work out what was from what... I'm just gonna enjoy getting the charges back and the 8% interest when I take them to court.

[The Druid]

EMMA,

Just charge them for EVERYTHING you think they might owe you. If they want to argue the toss about it, let them do it in court. Remember, they've been taking you to the cleaners, AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT, for a long time. If they think there is a discrepancy in your claim, LET THEM SORT IT OUT. They are supposed to be working for you, NOT you for them.

Good luck, and let us know how you're getting on.

[The Druid]

Initial letter requesting repayment sent today !!!!!

 

Barclays Bank PLC

Leicester

LE87 2BB

 

 

9th, August,2006

 

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ********

 

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last six years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £2,925 plus £397.29 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £3,322.29. I am also claiming back the sum of £581.50 in respect of payments you have taken from my account (ACCOUNT FEES), which I have never signed up for, or authorised, in any way whatsoever.

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

 

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

WISH ME LUCK PEOPLE !!

[Warms]

Good Luck Once Again!!!

[The Druid]

Received from Barclays yesterday AND the day before. Both letters are the same but from different people:-

 

Retail Banking Customer Relations

Leicester

LE87 2BB

 

 

Dear Mr ******,

We are sorry to hear you have had to contact us about the level of service you have received from Barclays. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to do so.

We are looking into your concernsand will let you have an answer or update as quickly as possible, but no later than 4th September, 2006. In the meantimeif you wish to discuss this matter further please call us on 0845 609 0806.

I have enclosed a leaflet explaining how Barclays works to resolve complaints. I hope you find this useful.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Yours sincerely,

 

William Ward

 

Sales and Service Advisor

 

 

This would appear to be a stock reply, computor generated, exactly the same as the ones they charge you £30 for !! The other letter is dated 15th August with a reply deadline of12th September 2006. They have until the 23rd August to settle, otherwise it's LBA time !!!

 

WATCH THIS SPACE

[sharmads]

Hi Druid,

 

You are about 2 weeks ahead of me so I will be following your thread with interest. I have today recieved practically an identical letter to yours, only mine is being dealt with by Martin Penrice at Northampton they said they are going to get back to me 15/09/06 which is about 2 (ish) weeks after the deadline I gave them in my prelim letter (30/08/06). I have actually been given a freephone number 0800 282390 to call if I need to speak to them which is the first time I have ever had a freephone number in 12 years of banking with them!

Please keep me updated

 

Regards

[The Druid]

LETTER BEFORE ACTION SENT TODAY

 

Barclays Bank PLC

Leicester

LE87 2BB

23rd, August, 2006

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ********

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond to my letter of the 9th, August, 2006.

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I calculate that you have taken £2,925.00 plus £397.29 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. I am also claiming back the sum of £581.50 in respect of payments you have taken from my account (ACCOUNT FEES), which I have never signed up for, or authorised, in any way whatsoever. Total £3,903.79

 

I am, again, enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 9th, August, 2006.

 

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Barclays want a knife fight?............I'm MORE than ready to give 'em one !!!

[emmabk]

i need help! i have had a complaint in with the banking ombudsman also, the banking ombudsman has negotiated with Barclay's that they can help me with my loan repayments and restructuring providing I GIVE UP MY COMPLAINT regarding bank charges, i need serious help anyone got any suggestions? Barclays have now less than the 14 days requested to pay back the money they owe me and i am awaiting to sign an acceptance form from the ombudsman, i just dont know what to do?

[The Druid]

Here is what I would do Emma, and bear in mind this is my opinion only. I would tell Barclays that you will drop the complaint against them ONLY after they have paid back the money they have ***** from you, AND, after the money is credited to your account, you can THEN re-negotiate with them as to the restructuring of your loan repayments. REMEMBER, IT'S YOUR MONEY !! You could also argue that if they hadn't ***** the money from you in the first place, you wouldn't be in the predicament you are in. Offering to help you out if you drop the complaint against them smacks to me of blackmail. As previously stated, this is solely my own opinion. Post the URL of this page on the board, ask one of the mods to have a look at it. They will most probably be able to give you better advice, being of a legal mind. Personally, i like to go for the jugular !!!