Beetlejuice vs Abbey

[beetlejuice]

At last found joint statements from 97 to date, homework tonight will be working out charges, interest (OD) and CI.

 

Post soon with update.

 

BJ

 

[beetlejuice]

Right, late night finishing that homework off. Now I have used the C.I daily method spread sheet downloaded here.

 

I get from 8/99 till 12/01 £1777.50 charges and £7047.04 CI sub total £ 8824.54 and CI on int on charges of £26.87 total £8851.40.

 

Does this seem??? right I have used there unarranged O/D rate 27%.

 

Is there a temp letter for over six years and CI. PRELIM

 

Comments please

 

 

Thanks

 

BJ

 

:)

[path_finder]

you shouldn't be claiming any contract interest on the prelim letter. you can only claim contract interest at 8% when you send LBA and file in court

[beetlejuice]

Now I'm confused (is this interest called something else then??)see this link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/47875-how-word-preliminary-approach.html

 

What do you think??BJ

 

[path_finder]

I suggest you use this link for the letter:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/671-2-letter-preliminary-approach.html

 

and also check :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

this gives you step by step instruction on how to reclaim your charges.

 

If you try to claim interest at 27% the bank will think you don't know what you are doing. 8% is what you can claim through court, you don't have to put it on your prelim letter.

 

Here is an example of working it out (using 4/4/07 as the up to date):-

 

unpaid dd fee £30 on 24/11/2005

number of days since charge incurred = 496

8% interest is calculate by multiplying £30 by 0.00022 = 0.0066p per day

then multiply 0.0066p by the number of days :-

0.0066p x 496 = £3.27

[beetlejuice]

Path,

 

I've read step by step. This is my 7th claim(fairly familiar with FAQ's and processs now), but I wanted to get on the CI bandwagon, did you look at the link. As in this is the money I'm charging you for having my money for so long.....

 

 

BJ

 

[lucid]

you shouldn't be claiming any contract interest on the prelim letter. you can only claim contract interest at 8% when you send LBA and file in court

 

Contractual interest isn't the 8% interest - it is something completely different. The 8% interest is statutory interest which we can add to the claims once they are filed at court, this is allowable under s69 of the County Courts Act 1984. But path is correct in that you don't add it until you file at court - for aybody who didn't know.

 

If you try to claim interest at 27% the bank will think you don't know what you are doing. 8% is what you can claim through court, you don't have to put it on your prelim letter.

 

Claiming interest at 27% (this bank's unauthorised borrowing rate) is the process of claiming contractual interest - interest that exists in the contract. The bank won't think you don't know what you're doing - as long as you make it clear it is contractual interest. This is still quite an unkown area but quite a lot of people haev had their claims settled when they've claimed contractual.

 

Beetlejuice, I'm here in response to your PM. I don't mind offering advice where I can but it was quite a long time ago (in bank charge reclaiming terms ) when we began the process (August 06), filed the court claims (September 06), and then eventually had the claims settled (February 07), and I think the whole basis for claiming contractual has probably changed since our claims. We did claim contractual interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate and we had the full amount paid, but our oldest charges were about 3 years old - so it wasn't a large amount of money for the bank to pay up. Certainly nothing in comparison to the interest on your charges from 1999. The only advice I can really give is to make sure you are 100% sure, confident and happy with what you're doing before you go ahead - don't be swayed by the amount of money involved as the effects of compounding interest pre 6 years is immense.

 

I think you will find Glenn_Uk's claim against Abbey useful as he did claim contractual interest and his claim was also pre 6 years. I don't think our claim will be much use as it was nowhere near being pre 6 years and the amount of interest was small.

 

Just be sure to take your time with this.

 

Good luck. Lucid

[beetlejuice]

Lucid,

 

Thanks a million, it's as I thought, but I need to get my head around the arguments so they roll off the toungue. I'm pretty sure i'm up for it, as they say at the moment "I have nothing to lose!"

 

I'm reading around looking for a decent PRELIM letter to state my case clearly as you suggest, hopefully you'll keep an eye on this and let me have any pearls.....

 

thanks again

 

regards

 

BJ

 

[philread1]

Also, Beetlejuice, I think I'm right in saying, you can only claim CI or S.69 Interest at 8%, not both!

 

Can someone clarify this?

Phil:)

[beetlejuice]

Phil,

 

I'm not sure, one thing I know is CI is more. I saw a thread somewhere saying someone had won both, obviously only CI can be included in original PRELIM APPROACH LETTER and the S69 once you get to court, there is somewhere amongst the threads a definition for claiming both as there are different reasons, I'll try to find again and post here. If they offer me the Claim + CI I'll definately settle..... here's hoping.!!!!

 

I'm going to use following letter from Newbody vs Abbey(thansk NB by the way still reading through your entire thread) any comments.

 

The only thing I need is an argument to add to give me right to claim back more than six years. Anyone????

 

 

BJ

 

 

Letter

 

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENT'S PLACE

LONDON

NW1 3AN

 

6th February 2007

 

 

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX Sort code: XX-XX-XX

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last X years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £XXXX.XX plus interest on this amount at your current unauthorised overdraft rate of XX% APR rate equalling £XXXX.XX which you would have charged me in interest for the sum which you have taken. Making a total outstanding of £ XXXX.XX

 

I believe I am entitled to this interest rate due to the implied term in the bank contract based on the principle of "mutuality" or "reciprocity"

 

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

 

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity’s caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.(IF NEEDED)

 

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

X XXXXXX

[lucid]

Also, Beetlejuice, I think I'm right in saying, you can only claim CI or S.69 Interest at 8%, not both!

 

Can someone clarify this?

Phil:)

 

Yes you're right Phil. You can only claim contractual interest or statutory interest - not both. If you claim for contractual interest you can't add statutory when you file theclaim at court.

 

Beetlejuice, if you think you've seen somebody who has stated they claimed both, they may have been referring to overdraft interest (interest paid on penalties) but calling it contractual interest.

 

I think there have been a couple of people who have mistakenly (or perhaps on purpose) claimed both forms of interest (s69 8% + contractual interest) and the banks have paid out - but it's most likely that the bank didn't notice and just wanted to settle. It's certainly not advisable to claim both.

 

Lucid

[beetlejuice]

Ok, thanks Lucid, still looking at beyond six year threads, time to do some work!!!

 

BJ

[charleyfarley]

BJ,

 

Have a look at Mad Nick's thread on CI

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/49008-mad-nick-abbey-5.html#post743941

[beetlejuice]

Thanks, CF

 

All this reading is a full time job still better than going off half cocked!

 

BJ

[beetlejuice]

Just got back from Post office. Posted Prelim to Abbey. 28.7% CI. Well let' see how they like those apples! Claiming back to '97 so I'll keep you all posted.

 

BJ

 

[beetlejuice]

Update

 

LBA Sent 18th May 2007.

 

BJ

[cassie2006]

Good Luck

[beetlejuice]

Looking fro definative POC Glen's seems very advanced(will PM to see if he minds me HiJacking it) as older than 6 years do I need to put Limitation etc in POC.? Anyone

 

 

BJ

 

PS charges back to 99 not 97 as previously posted

[beetlejuice]

bump for glen!

[Lula]

Beetlejuice, take a look at French v Abbey (3) he is using a good POC for pre 6 years and contractual interest .

[beetlejuice]

Will do thanks Lula

 

 

BJ

 

[Shoe Em]

This is really interesting (no pun intended!) we didn't go down the CI route because we didn't know about it until we were a few leters into the process. Be watching to see how you get on, good luck:)

[beetlejuice]

Lula,

 

French's POC gives total amount he's claiming not split into charges interest on charges and CI just one lump sum increasing (doesn't give rate of increase either) is this okay

 

BJ

[Lula]

my poc gives the charges plus interest at CI,

 

take a look at this though http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/100805-claims-transferred-southend-10.html#post1009424

 

 

post 184

[beetlejuice]

No way jose' am I going to Southend, it's the other side of the world.....

 

(here's) Hoping Brentford will want to deal there!!

 

What was your argument for CI in POC ??

 

BJ