CL Finance , HSBC & Me. Please help!

[mediaseller]

I have had a County Court claim registered against me from Howard Cohen Solicitors for CL Finance.


This is for my debts which they bought from HSBC Bank and the debts were an overdrawn current account and a managed loan.


In December 2007 CL wrote to me proporting to have bought the debt from HSBC and I received a similar letter from HSBC (allegedly), claiming the same, however I continued making payments to CL and in the meantime requested a copy of the original HSBC loan agreement and proof of assignment of debt, to which they did not reply. I did enclose a cheque with the letter for a normal one month's payment which to this day has not been cashed.


I occasionally suffer from mild depression which sometimes leaves me forgetting things and recently I missed a few payments, so at the end of July I received a county court claim from Nothampton CC requesting full payment of £8,000 approx.


On receipt of the summons I contacted CL to remedy the situation offering to catch up in one payment however they refused to listen stating that it was too late to withdraw the claim but I could have it withdrawn if I paid 3 stage payments to clear the balance.


I have acknowledged the summons at court and stated that I intend to defend the claim against me.


Meanwhile I sent a Subject Access Request to CL for all relevant documents which they are relying on as evidence and sent a CPR to Cohen's for likewise.


CL have sent a pack containing my balance sheet with them, statements of my accounts with HSBC, a blank template of transfer of rights and a half completed copy of the same TOR form and a copy of the original managed loan agreement with HSBC.


Amongst my copies of HSBC statements I have been sent statements of someone else's loan account with HSBC. (Breach of data protection here methinks).


The original HSBC Loan agreement has my house address correct however my two forenames are the wrong way round with my correct signature at the bottom. Does this void the agreement?


I was sent a default notice from HSBC when they owned the debt but I have never received a default notice or reminder from CL Finance despite them lying to me over the phone stating that they sent reminders.


Cohen's still have not replied to my CPR request and it's ten days since I sent it by special delivery.


I have to get my defence in by Monday 1 September 2008 so what is my best defence here and can I ask for a stay since Cohen's have not replied thus frustrating my case?


Please help URGENTLY since I must get my defence in the post by Friday this week.


Thanks to all.


P.S. It's strange that within a few months of claiming back my bank charges (with the help of CAG), HSBC decided to sell on my debt don't you think?

[MARTIN3030]

You dont need to send an Subject Access Request for docs they will be relying on in evidence since you can request that and it will need to be shown in their defence.
Under guidelines they cannot move on the debt if its in dispute although if its being collected on behalf of the original creditor they can of course send it back to them.
It seems you have acknowledged the debt in your asking for time to pay.
Can you answer a couple of questions.
1 How much was the original/alleged debt for ?
2.How much (if anything have you paid off it )
3.Did you dispute charges before making arragement/admitting the debt?

[mediaseller]

Hi,
I have not asked for more time to pay I am disputing it.

The original debt on the managed loan account was fro £10k and about £8,500 is left owing on that, howevver where I thick CL Finance have slipped up is that they issued the summons in the details of my HSBC current account on which the balance is about £295.

I disputed the charges in May 07 based on my HSBC current account and was paid back my charges later that month.

Thanks so much.

Paul

[Blossomandebony]

Originally Posted by mediaseller

Hi,
I have not asked for more time to pay I am disputing it.

The original debt on the managed loan account was fro £10k and about £8,500 is left owing on that, howevver where I thick CL Finance have slipped up is that they issued the summons in the details of my HSBC current account on which the balance is about £295.

I disputed the charges in May 07 based on my HSBC current account and was paid back my charges later that month.

Thanks so much.

Paul

If you have proof that the o/d balance on your current account was £295 when they closed it, and the Particulars of Claim specify this account only, I would pay the £295 by recorded delivery, then base your defence on the simple fact that you have paid the debt.

As far as I know, CL can't change the POC just because they've made an error.

BAE

[mediaseller]

Hi,

In fact on further trawling through the statements of my current account (which CL provided, not Cohens), I have found that my HSBC current account (which ends in 395) was closed with a ZERO BALANCE on 20 February 2007 and the summons was issued at 28 July 2008.

The Assignment Notice eledges that the assingment for that account took place on 28 Septemebr 2007 so how can assignment be carried out on a closed account.

Thanks.
Paul

[Blossomandebony]

Originally Posted by mediaseller

Hi,
I have found that my HSBC current account (which ends in 395) was closed with a ZERO BALANCE on 20 February 2007 and the summons was issued at 28 July 2008.

So you have absolute proof that there is no debt on this account, (the account that they specify in their Particulars of Claim) - even better. Your defence is ' the account was closed on 20th February 2007 with a zero balance.' Then you attach a copy of the statement which proves the closing balance was zero. (Simplistic, I know, but you get the gist).

Obviously, CL have made a mess of the Particulars of Claim and they will most likely withdraw their claim once you get your defence in. It's then likely that they will re issue a claim with the correct account numbers / details, but by that time you will have a better idea of writing a defence, and you'll have access to a whole load of help on here.

BAE

[mediaseller]

Hi and thanks for the help.

By the way, like I said, they appear to have purchased an account which did not exist so can they purchase the other account and re-apply to the court?

Since I also have proof that the managed loan account was closed on 20 February 2007 presumably they could not buy this debt since it no longer exisits.

The only thing that does exist is a copy of the agreement with no typed reference to the account number. Just a hand written reference to the number ending in 277.

Also could I claim back the £95 per month I had been paying to an account which did not exist? Perhaps sue them in return.

Thanks again.
Paul

[MARTIN3030]

Originally Posted by Blossomandebony

If you have proof that the o/d balance on your current account was £295 when they closed it, and the Particulars of Claim specify this account only, I would pay the £295 by recorded delivery, then base your defence on the simple fact that you have paid the debt.

As far as I know, CL can't change the POC just because they've made an error.

BAE

They would need permission to submit an ammended defence-which would have to be done on notice.

[MARTIN3030]

I am going to move this thread into the debt legal forums for you.

[mediaseller]

Thank Martin3030.

How do I navigate to this forum or can you send me a link please?

Thanks again.
Paul

[mediaseller]

Hi,


I have posted a thread elsewhere in this forum on this subject and I'm now ready to file my defence on-line this weekend so I would like someone to check the defence posted here and suggest any changes which I should make if any.


The situation was the Howard Cohen Solicitors acting for CL Finance issued me with a summons for a balance of £8.5k on a bank account which was closed and leaving a zero balance 7 months prior to CL Finance acquiring the alleged debt.


The defence is as follows:

In the Northamton County Court
Claim number: xxxxxxxxx

Between

CL Finance Limited- Claimant

and

xxxxxxxxxx – Defendant

I xxxxxxxxxx, of 1xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, am the Defendant and make this statement.

Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

The Claimant's claim in their own words “is for a sum of £8,463.83 being monies due from the defendant to the Claimant under an overdrawn bank account originated with HSBC Bank plc under reference xxxxxxx and assigned to the Claimant on the 28th of September 2007, notice of which has been given to the Defendant”.

Deed of Assignment.

It has been alleged by the Claimant that the aforementioned bank account under reference xxxxxxxxx was assigned to the Claimant at 28th September 2007, however despite a request from myself to the Claimant in the form of a Subject Access Request (Subject Access Request), for a copy of a Deed of Assignment, non has been delivered to me.

Particulars of the aforementioned overdrawn bank account.

The HSBC bank account under reference xxxxxxxxxxx to which the Claimant refers was closed at 20th February 2007 leaving nothing owing.

Conclusion.

I the defendant respectfully ask the Court to strike out the claim against me since the aforementioned bank account was closed at 20th February 2007 and did not exist on the alleged date of of assignment being 28th of September 2007.

Statement of Truth.

I, believe the above statement to be true and factual


Signed .....................xxxx xxxxxxxxxxx

Date xxxxxxxxxxxxxx






Thanks thanks in anticipation.
Paul

[creditcardmug]

There must be more to the story than this, CL wouldnt have issued the claim for a non-existant debt, have you sent a request for information under CPR18?

[mediaseller]

Yes it's the truth.

I sent in a CPR18 and Cohens did not reply however a Subject Access Request sent to CL direct resulted in them sending me copies of my bank statements which clearly show tha the account was closed down 7 months before assignment was done.

Account closed in Feb 07, assignment done on Sept 07.

Clearly HSBC have sold CL a duff account.

regards
Paul

[creditcardmug]

Originally Posted by mediaseller

Yes it's the truth.

I sent in a CPR18 and Cohens did not reply however a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent to CL direct resulted in them sending me copies of my bank statements which clearly show tha the account was closed down 7 months before assignment was done.

Account closed in Feb 07, assignment done on Sept 07.

Clearly HSBC have sold CL a duff account.

regards
Paul

Yes i see that, so did you clear the balance on the account and then it was closed?, if you dont mind me asking

[mediaseller]

Someone did because at the time of account closure the balance was zero.

Anyway I only want to know if the defence letter looks OK.

Regards Paul