Black Horse hire purchase agreement

dotty · 31st March 2007, 22:35

I purchased a vehicle, 3 years ago, on a 7 year unregulated hire purchase agreement. I want to send the vehicle back but I have found out that I don't actually have any consumer rights. This of course was not explained to me at the time of purchase.
During a recent MOT the mechanic pointed out that the chassis number on the log book is different to the one on the vehicle. On double checking the agreement there is another chassis number making three different numbers!
I have spoken to Consumer Direct (oft helpline) who think that if there are errors in the chassis numbers I could possibly return the vehicle, without anything further to pay & reclaim the money I have paid over the last three years!!
Someone else has said this could come under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982
Does anyone know if this is the case or know anything about this??

Thank you

dotty · 1st April 2007, 09:18

I purchased a vehicle, 3 years ago, on a 7 year unregulated hire purchase agreement. I want to send the vehicle back but I have found out that I don't actually have any consumer rights. This of course was not explained to me at the time of purchase.
During a recent MOT the mechanic pointed out that the chassis number on the log book is different to the one on the vehicle. On double checking the agreement there is another chassis number making three different numbers!
I have spoken to Consumer Direct (oft helpline) who think that if there are errors in the chassis numbers I could possibly return the vehicle, without anything further to pay & reclaim the money I have paid over the last three years!!
Someone else has said this could come under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982
Does anyone know if this is the case or know anything about this??

Thank you

Notty · 1st April 2007, 14:22

The dealer went into liquidation 8 weeks after I purchased the vehicle, so I can't go back to them for advice. But my feeling is I've been misled as there was an exact same vehicle which had gone off road with a broken chassis.
The vehicle I thought I was buying had an awning but I got a vehicle without an awning. Now all this with the chassis number I do feel very worried & don't know where to get the right advice.
Up until Friday Black Horse had told me that if I paid 50% I could return the vehicle with nothing more to pay & no penalties. That is what I'd been doing with just £5,000 to go to reach half way. I've paid for 3 years almost £20,000. Balance was £39,750 (with £10,550 interest) but settlement figure is still £26,000 with penalties on.
Found out yesterday this is only on a REGULATED agreement.
On an UNregulated agreement I can be charged up to 5 months interest as a penalty + all costs of returning the vehicle.

Consumer Direct have put me in for a call from Trading Standards, as you can no longer call them direct anymore at the local council.
I'll wait to see what they say. I'll keep you posted. I'm just so worried about the heavy mob from BH turning up to take the vehicle!

Thanks

calvi36 · 1st April 2007, 17:36

as the vehicle was purchased at 25k+ then it had to be an unregulated agreement. You will have to give more infor on the exact terms of the agreement. If the VIN number on the agreement is different from the log book and also different from the one on the vehicle then you have major problems. How have you managed to tax the vehicle each year? I would suggest that to start the ball rolling you need to contact dvla and explain what is happening, without going into the finance side. You need to establish the VIN number and history the vehicle you have. If it is a ringer then I would wince but BH might have problems as they have funded a vehicle that officially does not exist so possible recourse against them. Hope this helps a wee bit.

hellhasnofury · 1st April 2007, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dotty

I purchased a vehicle, 3 years ago, on a 7 year unregulated hire purchase agreement. I want to send the vehicle back but I have found out that I don't actually have any consumer rights. This of course was not explained to me at the time of purchase.
During a recent MOT the mechanic pointed out that the chassis number on the log book is different to the one on the vehicle. On double checking the agreement there is another chassis number making three different numbers!
I have spoken to Consumer Direct (oft helpline) who think that if there are errors in the chassis numbers I could possibly return the vehicle, without anything further to pay & reclaim the money I have paid over the last three years!!
Someone else has said this could come under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982
Does anyone know if this is the case or know anything about this??

Thank you

Hello Dotty,

I think you car seems a bit suspect to say the least, and IMO you have a good case.

Have a look at this info to see if you can get the info you need
The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002

Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994

JonCris · 2nd April 2007, 03:48

Based on what you state & if the vehicle was extensivley repaired & you weren't told or is a ringer then the garage & by default the lender, if dealer introduced, are guilty of breaching the SOGA & you are entitled, even now, to return the vehicle whilst demanding a full refund af ALL monies paid

rosiecotton · 2nd April 2007, 10:05

If it's a Hire Purchase agreement the SoGA won't apply.

See the thread that Delboytrotter started recently on which I have posted more details and links about HP agreements.

You will instead be looking at the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act against the HP company. This Act is similar to SoGA in that it states that all goods sold must be of satisfactory quality, fit for all normal purposes and as described. You could argue that as you have been sold a vehicle which has these irregularities, that it does not match its description. The HP company could say that they or their agents (the garage) have made no description to state that the numbers will match up (if it's on the agreement this will cause them problems!) and ultimately a judge would have to decide on this. However if your argument is successful you can potentially repudiate the contract, which sounds like what Consumer Direct have mentioned to you.

It won't matter a jot that the dealer has gone into liquidation as your rights are against the HP company and not the dealer anyway, since you effectively didn't have a contract with the dealer.

It might be best to speak to Trading Standards local to you as they may wish to have a look at your paperwork, in cases like this it is always easier to advise fully when you have all the paperwork in front of you.

rosiecotton · 2nd April 2007, 10:09

This is a link to Delboy's thread which explains more about the law relating to Hire Purchase agreements (see #8 and #9):
Quick Survey on what you think is Satisfactory

saves me typing it out again

JonCris · 2nd April 2007, 14:12

Notty

Neutral Citation Number: [2006] EWCA Civ 268

Case No: A3/2004/2720

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE
COURT OF APPEAL (CIVIL DIVISION)
ON APPEAL FROM THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION (COMMERCIAL COURT)
Mrs Justice Gloster
2003 Folio 687

Royal Courts of Justice
Strand, London, WC2A 2LL

22nd March 2006

Under section 75 the existence of the transaction, wherever it was entered into, is sufficient to provide the basis for connected lender liability if it was financed by a DCS agreement. The creditor's right to make a claim against the supplier is one created by statute which depends on nothing more than his having been compelled to satisfy the debtor's claim, but before the debtor can succeed against the creditor he must establish (in an English court, if necessary) that he had a claim against the supplier

rosiecotton · 2nd April 2007, 14:15

This would be irrelevant JonCris, it would apply to a standard credit agreement but not a HP agreement as the "supplier" and "debtor" would be the same party (i.e. the finance company). Black Horse are the supplier in this case.

Section 75 does not apply to HP agreements, Notty would have to use the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act as per my previous posts/link to posts.

dotty · 7th April 2007, 11:14

Hi JonCris & Rosiecotton
Thank you so much for your replies, you have been very helpful & have given me hope that I will be able to get somewhere with this.

I said I was waiting for trading standards to get in touch. You can no longer contact them direct at the the council you have to go through to Consumer Direct. If they think Trading Standards could help they email them with your details. The arrangement between them is that they should contact me within 3 days.
My call was due on Tuesday, nothing happened.
I called Consumer Direct told them I'd waited in for the call.
They emailed them again, told me they'd 'hopefully' call Wednesday - Nothing!
Yesterday - nothing - Easter hols - no chance

When I called Consumer Direct I asked if they'd leave a message & number for me to call back - but they told me they don't always leave a message - I can't sit next to the phone for a week, waiting!!!!

I called the local rep from Black Horse & the collections centre & explained that there is a problem & I'm waiting to speak to Trading Standards.
If I knew how to get the ball rolling I'd just go ahead - but at the same time I don't want to risk doing anything wrong.

Still waiting....... I'm aging rapidly!!

I've put everything together & when you go through the catalogue of problems & errors & funny goings on - I'm convinced I was sold a completely different vehicle to the one I saw first & wanted to buy.

Anyway I'll keep you posted -- thanks again!

dotty · 7th April 2007, 11:16

Does the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act cover unregulated hire purchase?

dotty · 12th April 2007, 23:14

Hi there
Eventually got a call from Trading Standards - an absolute waste of time. I don't like to be rude but he didn't have a clue.

So decided to call Black Horse as the local rep had left a very sharp message on my answerphone.
To cut it short I highlighted some of the difficulties & said I had 3 chassis numbers on 3 different documents. To which he tried to make out they were simply typing errors, they're busy, hand writing blar, blar. He was also saying that the numbers were very similar.
So he put the chassis number we both have (that's in the log book) into Experian. Apparently they hold all vehicle details, I didn't know this, even DVLA couldn't check the chassis number.
So of course the log book chassis number came up registered to my registration - OK, that's good.
He was so sure it was typing errors he put in the other 2 chassis numbers & they are both registered to my registration ALSO. He said 'this is very odd' & speedily refered it back to Black Horse Quality Assurance.

I have 3 chassis numbers registered to my one vehicle!!!???***

If anyone has ANY idea what this could be about I would be really grateful.

dotty

dotty · 12th April 2007, 23:16

Hi there
Eventually got a call from Trading Standards - an absolute waste of time. I don't like to be rude but he didn't have a clue.

So decided to call Black Horse as the local rep had left a very sharp message on my answerphone.
To cut it short I highlighted some of the difficulties & said I had 3 chassis numbers on 3 different documents. To which he tried to make out they were simply typing errors, they're busy, hand writing blar, blar. He was also saying that the numbers were very similar.
So he put the chassis number we both have (that's in the log book) into Experian. Apparently they hold all vehicle details, I didn't know this, even DVLA couldn't check the chassis number.
So of course the log book chassis number came up registered to my registration - OK, that's good.
He was so sure it was typing errors he put in the other 2 chassis numbers & they are both registered to my registration ALSO. He said 'this is very odd' & speedily refered it back to Black Horse Quality Assurance.

I have 3 chassis numbers registered to my one vehicle!!!???***

If anyone has ANY idea what this could be about I would be really grateful.

dotty

dotty · 12th April 2007, 23:18

Hi there
Eventually got a call from Trading Standards - an absolute waste of time. I don't like to be rude but he didn't have a clue.

So decided to call Black Horse as the local rep had left a very sharp message on my answerphone.
To cut it short I highlighted some of the difficulties & said I had 3 chassis numbers on 3 different documents. To which he tried to make out they were simply typing errors, they're busy, hand writing blar, blar. He was also saying that the numbers were very similar.
So he put the chassis number we both have (that's in the log book) into Experian. Apparently they hold all vehicle details, I didn't know this, even DVLA couldn't check the chassis number.
So of course the log book chassis number came up registered to my registration - OK, that's good.
He was so sure it was typing errors he put in the other 2 chassis numbers & they are both registered to my registration ALSO. He said 'this is very odd' & speedily refered it back to Black Horse Quality Assurance.

I have 3 chassis numbers registered to my one vehicle!!!???***

If anyone has ANY idea what this could be about I would be really grateful.

dotty

rosiecotton · 13th April 2007, 11:14

The local TS should at least have been able to advise you on the legislation, should also have asked to see your paperwork in my opinion as it's always easier to advise on matters like this with the paperwork in front of you. What did they actually say?

The Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act will cover all purchases made on HP.

I've no idea about the chassis numbers though - what effect it has upon the car itself - and this isn't something TS would know about either to be fair.

dotty · 13th April 2007, 12:37

Hi
Trading Standards said 'Why would you get any money back?'
If you have a fiat panda that's red & one that's white you still have the same product. Another version of above but with garden furniture.
Said thay couldn't help anyway because it was over £5,000. DIdn't offer to see paperwork. Told me to see a solicitor.

He didn't know about the 3 chassis number being actually registered to my vehicle plate until after. Because I didn't get anywhere with Trading Stan

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