Voluntary Termination of HP, please help!

[Csimmons]

Hi,

I am am arranging terminate my HP agreement with Blackhorse Finance but I have a few queries. I notified them in writing that I wanted to cancel the agreement and they wrote to me advising that I have to pay £438.00. I do not understand why I have to pay this as I have paid over 50% of the total agreement, but when I called to question this, they stated it is the insurance premium and that I should send the form back with payment immediately as this amount will escalate with time.

First of all, I was not aware of any insurance premium on my agreement (after several calls and letters they provided me with a really bad copy of my agreement that is not eligible). Secondly, the form I have been sent with details of where to send the car to it states the car should have a valid tax disc. As I purchased the car without a tax disc I do not see why i should have to ensure that the car has one when I send it back!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Movingon]

Mods - can this be moved to it's own thread?

Csimmons;

Under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) you are entitled to receive a copy of the executed agreement relating to your finance. I believe it must be legible but I'm not certain. You MUST state, when you make your request, that it is being made under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act, and you MUST enclose £1 in payment (the statutory fee for such a request). They should send you a legible copy of your agreement.

Second, all the Act says is that you have to return the "Goods". If you never bought insurance on the finance, then challenge them to prove that you did. If you have paid more than 50% of the car's value, then you have to pay them precisely nothing.

[Csimmons]

I am currently arranging to return my car to Blackhorse Finance but I have a few queries.

I advised Blackhorse in writing that I wanted to terminate the contract and they sent me a form to complete, along with a letter stating that I need to send a payment of £438.90 along with the completed form. I do not know why I would have to pay this amount, considering I have paid over 50% of the finance agreement. I called them and they said that the amount they are asking for is the insurance premium, and that I need to send the form back asap, as the longer I leave it, the more insurance premium I will have to pay.

I am not aware of an insurance premuim being included in the agreement, after several letters and phone calls they eventually sent me a copy of my agreement which was eligible.

Also it seems that they are expecting the car to have a valid tax disc also. Considering I purchased the car without a tax disc, they shouldn't expect to have a valid tax disc on the car once I return it?!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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[baconbuttyman]

hi
do as stoneslaughter says and unless they send it recorded, if theydont reply after 12 days the debt then comes unenforcable, after 30 days without an agreement its then a ciminal offence

refer to my own case that the loan was written off cos of this
Loan Company Cannot Supply The Original Agreement
good luck

[Csimmons]

Thanks for the advice, I have sent Blackhorse a request for the agreement so I should expect that soon. However I am getting anxious as I stopped making payments when I requested the termination of the agreement as I have paid over 50% of the balance, and I am being persued by their head office for 'serious arrears' and they threatening to default the agreement. Am I supposed to continue paying? or should they back off until I dispute the £438 'insurance premium'?

[kpmatthews]

oops

[calvi36]

You should continue your payments until the VT is accepted as your are liable for all payments under the agreement until the agreement is finally ended. Just because you request a VT and dispute the £438.90 does not preclude you from making the payments under the agreement. It will then be up to you to dispute any payments made but this should be sorted automatically when the new settlement figure is reached if that makes sense. They are correct to state that you are in arrears as the VT has not taken place. I wish I could have said, stuff them and don't pay the £483 but am afraid you cannot do much at this point as they will not VT if they believe they are owed anything to VT. Best suggestion is make up the arrears and then try to VT again. Most importantly is to find out what insurance they are talking about and if you disagree ( which am sure you will, as you are unaware of any insurance) Then you could always hit them for mis-representation from when the original agreement was made.

[chocolates]

we bought a car in july08 on hp through first plus also took the insurnance for unemployment etc good job we did my husband got laid off work in september so the insurance are paying for it but what we want to know is that he has to have a insurance form stamped at the jobcentre to prove he is still unemployed but from february he will be 50 and has found out he has enough NI for when he retires at 65 so he will no longer be signing on so he wont have proof he is unemployed don't get me wrong if a job comes up he is willing to take it we were thinking of vt but wondered what would happen , i work but on nmw and would'nt be able to pay for it as i have all the bills to pay for please help!!!!!!!!!!!

[nevos]

Just add a quick one here:

When you VT a car the HP co will usually send some one from BCA British Car Auctions. He or She will check your car for any kind of damage, dints, seat damage etc. If they find damage above the fair wear and tear then, you will get a bill.

My advice if you are going to VT, ensure the car is as clean as possible then, take a lot of your own pictures, just in case they back bill you.

[eshrules]

Apologies for this being my first post, but woo :P

Anyway, OT, I'll start a new thread if needs be, but I'm currently trying to VT with Park Motor Finance, who have just insisted I return the vehicle, 200 miles/3 1/2 hours away from me and then have to get the train back.

This will involve booking a full day off work, the diesel required and the train ticket, can they really insist it's returned under these terms? Doesn't feel at all fair

[ReasonableRon]

Originally Posted by eshrules

Apologies for this being my first post, but woo :P

Anyway, OT, I'll start a new thread if needs be, but I'm currently trying to VT with Park Motor Finance, who have just insisted I return the vehicle, 200 miles/3 1/2 hours away from me and then have to get the train back.

This will involve booking a full day off work, the diesel required and the train ticket, can they really insist it's returned under these terms? Doesn't feel at all fair

A fair distance to be expected to travel to return the car would be the distance between where you live and where you bought the car from originally. Alternatively, some finance companies will offer the facility to pick up the car (your choice), but by doing this they are entitled to make a reaosnable charge.

HTH.

[eshrules]

Originally Posted by ReasonableRon

A fair distance to be expected to travel to return the car would be the distance between where you live and where you bought the car from originally. Alternatively, some finance companies will offer the facility to pick up the car (your choice), but by doing this they are entitled to make a reaosnable charge.

HTH.

hmm.

the distance between myself and the dealer is approx 10/15 miles, no further.

The finance firm have appointed an agent to deal with it, who told me this has been the procedure for the last 9 years and is perfectly legal and fair.

I personally don't think it is fair, expecting me to travel 3 1/2 hours to return it?

I'm presuming, there is no direct legislation/rules governing this?

[nevos]

Hi perhaps you can find something here National debt line

WARNING
You may have a default notice sent to you by the creditor because you are behind with the payments on your agreement. Once the time has run out on the default notice this may mean you have lost the right to end the agreement voluntarily and return the goods yourself. It depends upon your agreement. Your creditor may have called in or 'terminated' the agreement when the default notice runs out. Some agreements say another notice to terminate the agreement has to be sent to you after the default notice has run out.

[eshrules]

Originally Posted by nevos

Hi perhaps you can find something here National debt line

sadly, I've already tried (states the distance must be fair, but that seems open to interpretation!) that also tried contacting them, to no avail as of yet.

The financial ombudsmen service state they can't advise. I'm truly at a loss as to who I need to talk to regards this

[nevos]

Ho OK, pitty!

You know, if you really have to return the car to them 200 miles, you could look on ebay for car transport, my guess would be about £120.00 a lot will quote you more but, if you contact a few the price will come down, quite a few look for back loads and are cheap.

Sorry couldn't help more.

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[eshrules]

I 'finally' got through to the national debtline.

I'm posting this up for those of you who find yourselves in a similar position.

I have been advised to draft a letter advising the Finance Company of the fact that the contract has been terminated and as a result the vehicle is no longer my property, thus, the onus is on them to recover it.

He also re-iterated the fact that although the finance company can request you return the vehicle to them, it has to be within reasonable expense and distance, which 189 miles, 3 1/2 hours is not.

I have been advised to make the finance aware of this, by recorded letter and to state that I will involve Trading Standards or the Finance & Leasing Association if they continue to insist on me returning the vehicle to the land far far away.

Fair play to them, they seem to be a good and knowledgeable bunch.

I'll probably start my own thread when I've got an update, so others can follow my case and hopefully pick up a tip or two on how to deal with these rather underhand companies.

[nevos]

That's good! glad you could get some good advice!

[Scottc68]

Originally Posted by eshrules

I 'finally' got through to the national debtline.

I'm posting this up for those of you who find yourselves in a similar position.

I have been advised to draft a letter advising the Finance Company of the fact that the contract has been terminated and as a result the vehicle is no longer my property, thus, the onus is on them to recover it.

He also re-iterated the fact that although the finance company can request you return the vehicle to them, it has to be within reasonable expense and distance, which 189 miles, 3 1/2 hours is not.

I have been advised to make the finance aware of this, by recorded letter and to state that I will involve Trading Standards or the Finance & Leasing Association if they continue to insist on me returning the vehicle to the land far far away.

Fair play to them, they seem to be a good and knowledgeable bunch.

I'll probably start my own thread when I've got an update, so others can follow my case and hopefully pick up a tip or two on how to deal with these rather underhand companies.

Hi,
This is my first contribution so I hope it comes out ok.I am also a previous (they would argue that I still am!) customer of Park Finance and decided to VT my agreement with them, in October of last year.I was also informed that I would have to return the car to their agent, at BCA car auctions in Newport. I was not happy with this, as I bought the car from a local dealer that is about 2 miles away from my home. I am only about 30 or so miles from Newport but I was not happy about this arrangement, so I sought advice.

To cut a long story short, I did all the things that you are being asked to do and my complaint was eventually passed on to my local Trading Standards office. They have informed me that, although guidelines state that the place that a finance company asks you to return your vehicle to must be deemed as reasonable, in terms of cost and distance, there is no definitive interpretation of what 'reasonable cost or distance' actually is!!!They went on to tell me that only a Judge can make a ruling on whether the cost or distance is reasonable, or not!!

Ultimately, I have been advised to comply with Park Finance's request so I will be taking my 'old' car, which has been parked at a dealer's premises for the last 3 months, to Newport. I was supposed to book an appointment with their agent, for him to inspect the vehicle. When I phoned this man, he rattled through an extremely long list of items that he would be checking. I can tell you that I will not be doing all that plop!!! I will take the car to the specified address, after taking more photographs of it than a Japanese tourist, where I shall proceed to leave it. I will photograph the vehicle on the premises, as proof that I have taken it there and then I shall bugger off and carry on with the rest of my life!!! I do not expect any backlash from this as my agreement states that I 'must return the goods to us'. It does not state that I must have the car inspected, so I do not see how Park can enforce any spurious claims against me. As I will have photographs of the car, inside and out, I should be protected against the threat of extra 'repair' costs, which I am led to believe is the favoured way for these companies to extort extra cash from unsuspecting consumers.

I sincerely hope that I don't have this type of hassle when I change my current car, as I will have no hesitation in VTing again, should the car not be worth what the settlement figure is after 2 years. As the distance involved in my case is much less than yours, it is less aggro for me to take the car to Newport. If I was in your position, there is no way that I would be taking it. I would probably tell them to 'go forth' in a less than polite manner!!! I would also think that the distance involved in your case would have a much greater chance of being deemed as 'not reasonable' by a Judge than the distance involved in mine.

As your case will, ultimately, be passed on to your local council's Trading Standards department, you would be well advised to contact them now.They will then advise you accordingly and will probably seek to contact Park Finance to try to find an amicable resolution.
I wish you well and hope that what I have written is helpful!!

[nevos]

To cut a long story short, I did all the things that you are being asked to do and my complaint was eventually passed on to my local Trading Standards office. They have informed me that, although guidelines state that the place that a finance company asks you to return your vehicle to must be deemed as reasonable, in terms of cost and distance, there is no definitive interpretation of what 'reasonable cost or distance' actually is!!!They went on to tell me that only a Judge can make a ruling on whether the cost or distance is reasonable, or not!!

Interesting: Wife VT'd a couple of years ago, BCA came along and inspected but, the finance co came to collect the car. I now wonder if they sold it locally. We did get a bill for about £500, electric polishing bla bla..as I recall we ignored the bill as the car was in tip top condition. We did take plenty of pics same as scotc68.

[eshrules]

Originally Posted by Scottc68

Hi,
This is my first contribution so I hope it comes out ok.I am also a previous (they would argue that I still am!) customer of Park Finance and decided to VT my agreement with them, in October of last year.I was also informed that I would have to return the car to their agent, at BCA car auctions in Newport. I was not happy with this, as I bought the car from a local dealer that is about 2 miles away from my home. I am only about 30 or so miles from Newport but I was not happy about this arrangement, so I sought advice.

To cut a long story short, I did all the things that you are being asked to do and my complaint was eventually passed on to my local Trading Standards office. They have informed me that, although guidelines state that the place that a finance company asks you to return your vehicle to must be deemed as reasonable, in terms of cost and distance, there is no definitive interpretation of what 'reasonable cost or distance' actually is!!!They went on to tell me that only a Judge can make a ruling on whether the cost or distance is reasonable, or not!!

Ultimately, I have been advised to comply with Park Finance's request so I will be taking my 'old' car, which has been parked at a dealer's premises for the last 3 months, to Newport. I was supposed to book an appointment with their agent, for him to inspect the vehicle. When I phoned this man, he rattled through an extremely long list of items that he would be checking. I can tell you that I will not be doing all that plop!!! I will take the car to the specified address, after taking more photographs of it than a Japanese tourist, where I shall proceed to leave it. I will photograph the vehicle on the premises, as proof that I have taken it there and then I shall bugger off and carry on with the rest of my life!!! I do not expect any backlash from this as my agreement states that I 'must return the goods to us'. It does not state that I must have the car inspected, so I do not see how Park can enforce any spurious claims against me. As I will have photographs of the car, inside and out, I should be protected against the threat of extra 'repair' costs, which I am led to believe is the favoured way for these companies to extort extra cash from unsuspecting consumers.

I sincerely hope that I don't have this type of hassle when I change my current car, as I will have no hesitation in VTing again, should the car not be worth what the settlement figure is after 2 years. As the distance involved in my case is much less than yours, it is less aggro for me to take the car to Newport. If I was in your position, there is no way that I would be taking it. I would probably tell them to 'go forth' in a less than polite manner!!! I would also think that the distance involved in your case would have a much greater chance of being deemed as 'not reasonable' by a Judge than the distance involved in mine.

As your case will, ultimately, be passed on to your local council's Trading Standards department, you would be well advised to contact them now.They will then advise you accordingly and will probably seek to contact Park Finance to try to find an amicable resolution.
I wish you well and hope that what I have written is helpful!!

your thread makes compelling reading, I'd be interested to know how many others have had this trouble when terminating with Park Finance. As some may or may not know, Park are in trouble, they're no longer issuing new finance, simply operating off existing contracts, whether or not this has a link with their behaviour obviously isn't for me to comment upon.

Thanks for the tip regards TS, I wasn't sure whether or not to involve them yet, I'll contact them this evening.

A letter has now gone, special delivery, basically informing them to come and collect their property. The car does, of course, being 8 years old and having covered 100k, have the odd scratch and dent, which I'm sure they'll try to charge me for. Thankfully, I've still got the original bill of sale which detailed some of the existing marks on the car anyway.

I think the agent you mention is the same contact I had, a Mr Scull by any chance?

It's a shame TS do not have more power, however as you say, with my distance nearing 200 miles, I can't see how anyone could argue that's a fair distance.

I'll contact TS tonight and update accordingly. thanks for your post