Land Rover Freelander

[Maxie]

Claire (my OH) had a freelander until recently; we VT'd this month. The reason? We had the first engine blow up at 33,000 miles, the second engine blew up at 36,000 miles and thrid engine blew up on the 'test drive' after landrover had fitted it. Each time it was a failed con rod. So, after 4 engines out faith was, shall we say........low.

What is interesting is Landrover told us there had stopped making the petrol model we had (02) as 'at 60,000 miles the head gasket will go and thats a promise' GLUP!

Land rover said they had never had a con rod go before. However, when the chap came to pick to car on behalf of land rover, he said they had picked up so many with the same problem. Hmm I thought.

Just wonder if anyone else had the same problem ro knows anyone who had?

[BankFodder]

Can I suggest that you go trawling round the Freelander sites and tell them that a register of con rod problems and others are being kept here.

HGF is well known on many petrol engined rover cars - esp the MGF.

[deeian]

I also had a freelander petrol about 4 years ago. It was brand new...the joy of a good company car sadly now gone......and funnily enough it had to have a new engine at about 30,000 miles. It also drank oil as if it were a nice merlot!!

[Maxie]

Originally Posted by deeian

I also had a freelander petrol about 4 years ago. It was brand new...the joy of a good company car sadly now gone......and funnily enough it had to have a new engine at about 30,000 miles. It also drank oil as if it were a nice merlot!!

I once say a quote - made me smile

"Land Rovers don't leak oil; their simply marking their terratory"

[Flyermonkey]

Its the K-Series Rover engine that is the problem - they are common to the MGF, the Freelander and the Lotus Elise. Good engine but badly made. The Cylinder Head Gasket went (with no warning) on my MGF at about 45,000 miles. However it is possible to buy a Lotus racing head gasket (for £25) which is significantly better than the Rover standard one... worth doing if your's goes to at least stop it happening again. Rover also put plastic dowels to hold the head on (and save a few pennies per engine) which again can be replaced by metal ones for the grand sum of £1.

It is a pretty shocking way to manufacture an engine.

[Lilmerricks]

You will probably find that it is the Rover engine that is the problem. I brought a Rover 214 just over two years ago. After three months and four days (thats four days after the warranty expired) I was driving up the motorway when the head gasket went. It also snapped the cam belt and cracked 2 cylinder heads. I had to get a new head gasket, cam belt, a reconditioned engine and a radiator which cost me £1250. The people that I brought it from described it as 'wear and tear' and Rover would not accept responsibility. I have head about this on other Rovers and Landrovers as well - it is something to do with the steel head gasket. If you go onto www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog, I think they have an article about it

[paul23870]

shame about the k-series engine being so problematic. i know that landrovers aren't the most reliable motors (speaking from experience having owned a nightmare unreliable freelander and currently a much better but not perfect discovery td5) but its not really their fault as its a rover engine. as landrover is now owned by ford they are going over to ford/ jaguar engines. poor old rover....they could never get it right. they never learnt.....from the dark days of british leyland upto their demise they basically produced absolute crap! how come the japs and germans can produce such a reliable car? they still have successfull motor industries while britains has dwindled away (crap management/ crap quality/ crap crap crap......). a real shame as we could design some decent cars but we just couldn't make 'em properly.
question...............ho w come foreign companies can come to britain and build extremely good quality/ reliable cars then????? (honda/ nissan/ toyota). proves its not the british worker at fault.
anyway, sorry to jibber jabber too much (the words of Mr T.)

[Richard_K]

Toyota's 7M-GE/GTE engine, as fitted to the MA70-series Supra, was prone to blowing headgaskets and needed retorquing to new specifications. VW's 2.0 8v engine drinks oil. Ford's later V6 engines (Duratorq, related to Mazda's V6) suffer head gasket failure. Ford's Zetec 16v engines suffer sticking valves. BMW's engines have suffered problems with the Nikasil coating. The PSA diesel engines, particularly non-turbo units, suffer head gasket failures regularly.

Most manufacturers encounter problems with a product at some point.

The K-series problem in the MG F is exacerbated by the position of the thermostat. Being on the inlet side, it lets the radiator and pipes contents of cold water into the hot engine, and due to the long pipes, that's a lot of water.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Maxie

Claire (my OH) had a freelander until recently; we VT'd this month. The reason? We had the first engine blow up at 33,000 miles, the second engine blew up at 36,000 miles and thrid engine blew up on the 'test drive' after landrover had fitted it. Each time it was a failed con rod. So, after 4 engines out faith was, shall we say........low.

What is interesting is Landrover told us there had stopped making the petrol model we had (02) as 'at 60,000 miles the head gasket will go and thats a promise' GLUP!

Land rover said they had never had a con rod go before. However, when the chap came to pick to car on behalf of land rover, he said they had picked up so many with the same problem. Hmm I thought.

Just wonder if anyone else had the same problem ro knows anyone who had?

Hi I'm a newby here but a longtime member of a large world-wide group of owners who are taking action against LR for this well known problem.

Its my intention in the next couple of days to post a comprehensive thread beginning to outline what we know, which is extensive about LR & their products.

Should you wish to join us please e mail me direct. As well as comprehensive tech help we also offer legal advice. Legal action has already commenced both here & abroad.

Before acceptance you will be required to complete a form disclosing some details about yourself & your vehicle. The reasons for this will be explained should you make direct contact

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Richard_K

Toyota's 7M-GE/GTE engine, as fitted to the MA70-series Supra, was prone to blowing headgaskets and needed retorquing to new specifications. VW's 2.0 8v engine drinks oil. Ford's later V6 engines (Duratorq, related to Mazda's V6) suffer head gasket failure. Ford's Zetec 16v engines suffer sticking valves. BMW's engines have suffered problems with the Nikasil coating. The PSA diesel engines, particularly non-turbo units, suffer head gasket failures regularly.

Most manufacturers encounter problems with a product at some point.

The K-series problem in the MG F is exacerbated by the position of the thermostat. Being on the inlet side, it lets the radiator and pipes contents of cold water into the hot engine, and due to the long pipes, that's a lot of water.

The K series was already a problem long before Land Rover installed it in the Freelander & they knew it

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Richard_K

No, I'm not a trader. But I also know "needs" doesn't require an apostrophe and I'm not obsessed with blaming others for my inability to maintain a car

Type ANY car maker into google with head gasket failure and you'll finds loads of hits. As for people not buying Rovers, maybe you need to look at the sales figures and the number of K-series powered Rovers on the road; Rover going out of business has almost no connection with the K-series; apart from anything else, if the engine was that bad, maybe you should be taking issue with Ford

But, since you know so much about the Freelander, when was the design finalised? What were the project codes during development? What car was the original prototype based on? When did the project start?

I'll give you a helpful clue: The Freelander's engine was decided upon in 1994.

Which models of MG has the K-series been successful in? And what about the Rover R8, R3, R6, HH-R? Badly maintained K-series engines may suffer HG failure, but that could be said of any engine.

Traders 'not touching' the Freelander is a bit of a red herring, too - they're popular used sellers, but if you mean they won't touch a V6, that's nothing to do with reliability and everything to do with fuel consumption and market forces. They also don't want 4.0 Jeeps, or petrol 4x4s of pretty much any flavour.



Just this one quote - just this - is sufficient to demonstrate that your grasp of tabloid editorial is much greater than your grasp of logic

Badly maintained! Try telling that to the Freelander owner who has had to replace his engine more than once & even in one case 5 times. Try telling that to the many owners who aware of the situation check the coolant level after each journey, no matter how short.

To check the levels as much as is needed the Freelander would need a glass bonnet & even that is no guarantee

I suppose according to you all of these owners world-wide have failed to maintain their vehicles.

One dealer told a customer by way of claiming the Freelander wasn't a particular problem that ONLY a 3rd go wrong. A 3rd! thats over 33% yet the dealer was claiming that figure as a selling point.

We have written correspondence in which a FRANCHISED dealer principal admits to a customer that his low p/ex offer is because the Freelander is unreliable. Thats from the original selling dealer who serviced it from the outset

Engineers have researched the problem extensivley on our behalf & may have found the underlying problem.It appears its not down to bad maintenance by the owner but bad design & poor servicing techniques used by franchise & non franchise garages alike.

Amongst other things it involves poor techniques used when replacing the coolant. We have a couple of engines fitted with censors on long term test & should know more very soon

Its clear from your remarks you are something to do with or have a vested interest in LR & like much of the mangement of LR are in denial as to suggest that most cars will be plastered all over the internet advertising its problems as the Freelander is is a nonsense or I must assume you did not take my advice & check for yourself.

If you do may I also suggest you post your remarks on one of those sites then you may be able to have an informed debate with past & present owners. Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know which sites you have chosen because I should love to watch

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Richard_K

I think you mean the Kia Sedona. Kia had input on the 2.5 V6, it is 'related' to the Rover unit - but I can find nothing to suggest it was anything other than merely a poor choice of engine for the workload, being a quad-cam 24V V6 more suited to revving and underpowered for the weight of car. Despite this poor application, it seems to be quite happy to lug the Sedona around for a while without failing...

Lotus stopped fitting the K-series engine because it wasn't federalized; they couldn't sell cars in the USA with the K-series, so opted for a Toyota unit.

As well as in the UK sites check out the American experience with the Sedona or even with an honest KIA dealer

Lotus... That is not the principal reason according to our 1st hand info

Anyway for those that claim otherwise wait until the s**t hits the fan both here & abroad when the truth will out

[Richard_K]

Originally Posted by JonCris

As well as in the UK sites check out the American experience with the Sedona or even with an honest KIA dealer

Lotus... That is not the principal reason according to our 1st hand info

Anyway for those that claim otherwise wait until the s**t hits the fan both here & abroad when the truth will out

The US Market Sedona wasn't fitted with the 2.5V6 engine. HTH.

Lotus: I'll take my first hand info, and their press releases, and press statements, and nearly a decade of K-series powered Elise derivatives (a decade! Of course it took them all that time to figure out the K-series 'is defective'...), over the opinion of someone who appears to be decidedly bitter about some bad luck/bad maintenance with a car.

[Richard_K]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Badly maintained! Try telling that to the Freelander owner who has had to replace his engine more than once & even in one case 5 times. Try telling that to the many owners who aware of the situation check the coolant level after each journey, no matter how short.

To check the levels as much as is needed the Freelander would need a glass bonnet & even that is no guarantee

I suppose according to you all of these owners world-wide have failed to maintain their vehicles.

One dealer told a customer by way of claiming the Freelander wasn't a particular problem that ONLY a 3rd go wrong. A 3rd! thats over 33% yet the dealer was claiming that figure as a selling point.

We have written correspondence in which a FRANCHISED dealer principal admits to a customer that his low p/ex offer is because the Freelander is unreliable. Thats from the original selling dealer who serviced it from the outset

Engineers have researched the problem extensivley on our behalf & may have found the underlying problem.It appears its not down to bad maintenance by the owner but bad design & poor servicing techniques used by franchise & non franchise garages alike.

Amongst other things it involves poor techniques used when replacing the coolant. We have a couple of engines fitted with censors on long term test & should know more very soon

Its clear from your remarks you are something to do with or have a vested interest in LR & like much of the mangement of LR are in denial as to suggest that most cars will be plastered all over the internet advertising its problems as the Freelander is is a nonsense or I must assume you did not take my advice & check for yourself.

If you do may I also suggest you post your remarks on one of those sites then you may be able to have an informed debate with past & present owners. Perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know which sites you have chosen because I should love to watch

I have no vested interest in Land Rover, or the Freelander. I just have a strong interest in cars, and have been involved with cars - as a hobby and professionally for periods - for most of my 'adult' life.

1/3rd of Freelanders? What 1/3rd? 1/3rd of K-series engined models? 1/3rd of all Freelanders before 2002? 1/3rd of Freelanders at that dealer? 1/3rd of Freelanders not serviced by a main agent? I'll be impressed if 1/3rd of all Freelanders is a remotely relevant figure - I'd be pretty confident that diesel models outsell the petrol by some margin.

The word is sensors, btw. Censors are what you'd probably like when anyone talks sense regarding engine failures

So one dealer has valued a car low because they know the history? So what. I've had a VW Beetle that leaked, a faulty damper on my RX8, and my 306 Cabriolet was a joke. The dealer couldn't fix the Beetle's leaking roof; it went back at the end of the contract to the supplying dealer and they will probably have fixed it.

If the dealers aren't servicing the cars correctly, that isn't an inherent issue with the K-series, but a problem with the dealers. You make yourselves look silly by attributing various causes and symptoms to one catch-all issue, and being unable to actually give reliable statistics with any context.

And yes; I suspect many people have failed to maintain their vehicles. if their dealer doesn't advise them correctly, then that is an issue with the dealer. I know I have told RX8 owners in the past that they MUST check their oil every 2nd fill up and top it up if it is low, because the car requires oil as part of the lubrication of the actual rotors - it is designed to inject it, use it for lubrication, and burn it. Some Mazda dealers clearly consider that this is too much to explain to buyers. As it is, my car uses 1 litre every 2,500 miles with my driving style, but they can vary drastically - a car used for many short trips will use much more.

IF my car's engine fails due to lack of oil, it is not Mazda's, or the Renesis engine's, fault. It is partially the fault of the dealer for not making me aware of this, and mostly my own fault for not reading the bloody manual.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Richard_K

I have no vested interest in Land Rover, or the Freelander. I just have a strong interest in cars, and have been involved with cars - as a hobby and professionally for periods - for most of my 'adult' life.

1/3rd of Freelanders? What 1/3rd? 1/3rd of K-series engined models? 1/3rd of all Freelanders before 2002? 1/3rd of Freelanders at that dealer? 1/3rd of Freelanders not serviced by a main agent? I'll be impressed if 1/3rd of all Freelanders is a remotely relevant figure - I'd be pretty confident that diesel models outsell the petrol by some margin.

The word is sensors, btw. Censors are what you'd probably like when anyone talks sense regarding engine failures

So one dealer has valued a car low because they know the history? So what. I've had a VW Beetle that leaked, a faulty damper on my RX8, and my 306 Cabriolet was a joke. The dealer couldn't fix the Beetle's leaking roof; it went back at the end of the contract to the supplying dealer and they will probably have fixed it.

If the dealers aren't servicing the cars correctly, that isn't an inherent issue with the K-series, but a problem with the dealers. You make yourselves look silly by attributing various causes and symptoms to one catch-all issue, and being unable to actually give reliable statistics with any context.

And yes; I suspect many people have failed to maintain their vehicles. if their dealer doesn't advise them correctly, then that is an issue with the dealer. I know I have told RX8 owners in the past that they MUST check their oil every 2nd fill up and top it up if it is low, because the car requires oil as part of the lubrication of the actual rotors - it is designed to inject it, use it for lubrication, and burn it. Some Mazda dealers clearly consider that this is too much to explain to buyers. As it is, my car uses 1 litre every 2,500 miles with my driving style, but they can vary drastically - a car used for many short trips will use much more.

IF my car's engine fails due to lack of oil, it is not Mazda's, or the Renesis engine's, fault. It is partially the fault of the dealer for not making me aware of this, and mostly my own fault for not reading the bloody manual.

Quite 1/3rd as we are talking about a possible new purchase this year one can only guess.

Also just been contacted by an owner who's been offered by his franchised dealer from whom he bought it new for £17,500 2.5 years ago the grand p/x sum of £5,000 for his presently fault free Freelander

I have never had an engine failure know a lot of people who have though nor have I ever owned a Freelander.
As far reliable statistics they'll all come out in the wash but as I have already said because of impending court action I'm not going to disclose them on this public forum. As court dates have already been set it would be improper not to say illegal.

Also like most dealers you have this mind set that you can do no wrong & its all down to the stupid owner who refuses to look after their car properly.

As for the servicing the failure to refill the coolant correctly isn't down to the dealers its down to LR who have not advised them how crucial it is to do it correctly. Also that is one of the problems there are a number more

Clearly you only know about the Freelander from manufactures propaganda whereas I know about the Freelander from reality having dealt with owners from all over the world.

As for Lotus I don't care who you believe I know what I know & I know from whom I know what I know. I would just say press releases are just that press releases.

LR's bulletins make mention of various fixes but they make absolutely no mention of why


Also as you say if something is an issue you would caution the customer about what to look for (sure you would you really want to sell the motor dont you) Anyway that being the case why didn't LR advise their prospective buyers that there might be a problem. Why? because they know that to do so might alert the purchaser to a serious problem & they have stock to shift


Also if you didn't know (which I doubt) it's considered the height of bad manners on such forums to correct someones grammar or spelling. On many forums you would be warned off for such crass behaviour & anyway I have an excellent secretary wot does most of my typing except when i'm on ere