Sale Of Goods Act (buying A Vehicle) - Your Rights - Page 2

JonCris · 24th July 2007, 13:55

Simon why don't you, after removing all ID details, cut & paste or re-type in Word the Solicitors LBA onto here so everyone can access it without waiting for you to respond to their PM?

That's what most members do here

Also some of us who know a little bit about the subject might have comments to make

GSMGuy · 24th July 2007, 15:23

Just a thought, and congratulations on your win btw - but it may be easier to just post the contents of said letter in this thread, so that you won't be getting pestered (nicely) for it ..... Removing personal details of course...

Just an idea......

Mike

Didn't realise someone else had posted same idea - sorry, got called away from PC mid-post

i need help · 24th July 2007, 23:04

hi had the same sort of problem apart from i had no joy with the garage,car went back 15 times in three months never fixed and parts stolen of the car when it was away.so i got the finance firm involved to help told them under the sale of goods act the car was not fit to be sold they agreed with me ( so they told me)and had the car picked up for tests. after 3 months and i had not heard a thing i started ringing them on a weekly bases but got no where apart from chatting to one girl in the office who told me the car had been in there car park from the day it was picked up.i then when as high in the firm as i could and was told it was an over site and i would hear something with in the month, and i did ? i got a letter from the dvla telling me the car had been sold to someone and the car still had 1000s of pounds of equipment i put on it and now they have defaulted me for the car ????????? can you help lee

JonCris · 25th July 2007, 11:57

You had better demand compensation/payment from the FC if it was taken to a garage they recomended & if that doesn't work issue proceeding forthwith.

How can they have defaulted you if the car has been sold would the selling garage or buyer nopr have undertaking an HPI search.

What type of agreement was used HP/Personal Loan etc: to make the purchase & was the finance introduced to you by the selling garage

i need help · 25th July 2007, 21:31

hi joncris
it was a standard hp agreement i still have it with me and all the reliant document.and thats only 1 of the 2 cars i had from the same garage and same fc and get this my contract on the 1st car gives a figure that ones you have reached you can end the agreement and return the car, with i did but 1st got the fc to send me a letter staiting how much i had paid which i did and had passed by £300 or more sent the car back and now the have defaulted me on that car as well.im in a mess and its not my fault

Keeksta1976 · 26th July 2007, 16:50

Hi
Not sure if this helps or this may apply but I know that a finance company are jointly liable for any words or actions that happen within that agreement and as such I you may be able to go down the anteceded negotiations route. I have attached wording my solicitors letters not sure if its any use here as mine was car dealer doing a runner without clearing finance. Good luck with it and sorry if this doesnt help your case

We refer to your letter xxxx, which is marked “without prejudice”. We do not agree that the contents of this lettere are to be treated as such.

In your letter you have failed to deal with any of the points raised in our previous correspondence to you and in particular no reference has been made as to why the case of Forthright Finance Limited v Ingate does not apply in this situation.

As you will no doubt be aware the principle in this case is that a dealer’s words or actions “relate to” the principle regulated agreement, so as to form part of the antecedent negotiations for that agreement within the meaning of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 56, if they are “all part of one transaction” or part of the same “package”.

In order to avoid our Client taking further action we will need a full explanation from you as to why this case does not apply and also why the definition as contained in Section 56 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not apply. It is still our Client’s position that the part exchange of the Fiat Punto for the Mini financed by Finance Company forms part of one transaction and was part of the package agreed with Motor Dealere, therefore our Client contends that you are vicariously liable for the dealer as a “negotiator” within the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Please can we have your detailed response within 7 days of the date of this letter.

pebbles55 · 21st October 2007, 18:52

are you able to send me a vopy of that letter. Think I may need it!

jjandbump · 9th November 2007, 17:28

please please can i have a copy of that letter i am desperate to get something firm going now, after the 20th ... yes 20th tme the new car has dieed and needed towing.

i have tried to write before but would like to start with the letters from scratch. so if it goes as far as the court i have done everything

maysula · 2nd December 2007, 12:52

Hello Simon,

Would you email me a copy of your letter please. I'm having problems with a dealer at the moment - this would be very helpful.

Thanks, Dawn

mas66 · 3rd December 2007, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by maysula

Hello Simon,

Would you email me a copy of your letter please. I'm having problems with a dealer at the moment - this would be very helpful.

Thanks, Dawn

Im also in the middle of a car problem and have found the information given by consumer direct (trading standards) very good .. they give good advice and will email you templates of letters you may require.

Cheers

Mark

BrookTownsend · 30th December 2007, 13:38

Hi, i am in a similar situation, would you be able to forward on the letter to my email account.

brooktownsend@btinternet. com

your help is very much appreciated.

kind regards

Brook Townsend

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonmanns

Sale of Goods Act

Hi Everyone, just to give you a bit of background on my story before I start with the SOGA!

I bought a used Smart car just over three months ago (I know you're all going to tell me that that was the first mistake I made, but hey!) from an independent garage and last weekend it died on me! I got it recovered to my local Merc garage who told me that it needed a new engine and turbo!! - total cost £4000! I only paid £3500 for the car so it is basically written off. I did take out a private warranty with the vehicle (Warranty Direct) but they have refused to pay out because they say that the fault was with the car before the policy was taken out! How did I guess they would say that!! Now, I could persue Warranty Direct at this stage to get them to prove that the fault was already there but this could prove costly for me due to all the "small print" in their policy terms that they could get me on so it seems (in my case anyway) that the SOGA is the way to go.

So, over the last week or so I've been swatting up on the Sale of Goods Act and it seems that I am entitled to ask the garage to repair the vehicle or to refund me. It's a bit mind boggling but I think I do know my rights now. Turns out that up until 6 months after the sale of the vehicle, it's up to the dealer to prove that the fault wasn't there when he sold it to me. Can't really see how he would do that so that must be a good thing. It's called the "Reversed Burden of Proof".

Now, if you've had the car for more than 6 months then it can be a little more difficult as it is then up to the purchaser to prove that the fault was there when it was bought - but don't be put off by this if you are convinced that you were sold a dudd - it just means that you might have to find an independent mechanic to do a report on the vehicle - the cost of this could then be reclaimed by you from the garage if it turns out that (in the opinion of the independent mechanic) the fault was already there.

Anyway, back to my story! The engine is still in my car at the moment so the dealer would have to have it stripped down (at his own expense) if he doesn't agree with me that the car had an inherent problem. If it does go to court (small claims court in my case) and he still can't prove it, I am entitled to ask for a full refund, interest, costs & compensation. So, from his point of view, he's got a difficult decision to make - either pay me back now or risk having to shell a lot more money - especially if he has to have the engine stripped down too.

I am also entitled to ask for a replacement car or hire car whilst we are in dispute. If the dealer declines to do this then I can recover any costs incurred for hiring a vehicle and add it to my claim.

Now, the main reason for my post is this:

I'v got a letter that was put together by myself and a firm of solicitors that outlines my rights and the dealers responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act. It's basically the first letter you need to send out to the garage - and gives them a defined timeline to which they should respond before further action is taken.

If anyone is in the same situation as I am and you would like a copy of the letter PM me with your email address and I can send you the Word file.

I'll be sure to keep you updated as to how I get on with my case! and will have available any other letters that I have sent in due course.

Simon

Gingerman · 2nd January 2008, 12:13

Hello, I am having a similar problem with a car dealer who refuses to acknowledge or pay for work required to a second hand car. I am now ready to speak to a solicitor and take court action. (Can anyone recommend a solictor with experience in this field)

Summary of situation: car is 3 and half years old, has few scratches/faults. Find that CD player don't work, it leaked water in rain etc. When I took this to a specialised garage to get quote, the mechanic there told me that I had a problem with the faulty catalytic converter. This was a problem me and my wife actually brought to the dealer's attention. The 2 salesmen told me it was normal, and it would go away after 15-20 minutes of driving. After 2 months of calling and writing them, I get the problem fixed, but now I am not getting any response from the dealer to reimburse me. Also, they have totally ignored the faulty CD player, and leaking water.

Please send me a copy of the letter, or let me know of a decent solicitor.

Thanks in advance (and well done for your court success - shame you had to take the long route - I don't want to got this way, but got no choice).

amardeep_nahal@hotmail.co m

jjandbump · 2nd January 2008, 14:05

We are still batteling with a car we have end less problems with any solicitr you find please let me know i am having real trouble i am preparing my case for the obusman.

Conniff · 3rd January 2008, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingerman

Hello, I am having a similar problem with a car dealer who refuses to acknowledge or pay for work required to a second hand car. I am now ready to speak to a solicitor and take court action. (Can anyone recommend a solictor with experience in this field)

Summary of situation: car is 3 and half years old, has few scratches/faults. Find that CD player don't work, it leaked water in rain etc. When I took this to a specialised garage to get quote, the mechanic there told me that I had a problem with the faulty catalytic converter. This was a problem me and my wife actually brought to the dealer's attention. The 2 salesmen told me it was normal, and it would go away after 15-20 minutes of driving. After 2 months of calling and writing them, I get the problem fixed, but now I am not getting any response from the dealer to reimburse me. Also, they have totally ignored the faulty CD player, and leaking water.

Please send me a copy of the letter, or let me know of a decent solicitor.

Thanks in advance (and well done for your court success - shame you had to take the long route - I don't want to got this way, but got no choice).

amardeep_nahal@hotmail.co m

SOGA

Quote:

Section 14 [2] deals with instances where goods are usable but have some form of defect. Examples include Rogers and Another v Parish (Scarborough) Ltd and Another 1987 where the Court of Appeal held that a series of defects in a Range Rover made it unmerchantable (not of satisfactory quality) even though it was fit to drive.

jjandbump · 4th January 2008, 10:33

does anyone have any more info on this part of the act that would be fantastic if you could supply it

CL1411 · 15th January 2008, 11:54

Hi All,

I am going through the same thing, I bought an Audi A3 for £9.5k 2 weeks ago and took it to Lancaster Audi to have it inspected as warning lights were coming on. Audi advised that in AUgust 07 they sent an invoice to the ex keeper advising it needed a new engine. the ex keeper (a well known high street bank!) then sold it to the car dealer without a new engine!!!

My solicitor has sent a letter to the car dealer today advising he has until next tues to either fix it or refund me.

Apparantly my sol said that if i want a repair, then its up to the dealer to prove the fault wasnt there-He will have a job as I have an invoice from Audi in Aug 07 advising new engine needed and Audi have told me no new engine has been put in

If I want a refund the its up to me to prove that the car was unfit for purpose and my sol said this audi documnet will prove it as well so looks like I have got him but the car dealer still tells me to f&^k off when I try and sort this out without legal action!!

The car dealer is currently running up extra damages of £250 per week for my hire car and looks like im going to have a court date and hoepfully take him to the cleaners for being arrogant when he knows I have evidence to prove both ways!!

I will keep you all updated on my progress in the next few months, if anyone else is in a similar position to me then I may be able to give you a copy of the letter that car garge has been issued with or do any of you have any advice for me??

Gingerman · 22nd January 2008, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonmanns

Sale of Goods Act

Hi Everyone, just to give you a bit of background on my story before I start with the SOGA!

I bought a used Smart car just over three months ago (I know you're all going to tell me that that was the first mistake I made, but hey!) from an independent garage and last weekend it died on me! I got it recovered to my local Merc garage who told me that it needed a new engine and turbo!! - total cost £4000! I only paid £3500 for the car so it is basically written off. I did take out a private warranty with the vehicle (Warranty Direct) but they have refused to pay out because they say that the fault was with the car before the policy was taken out! How did I guess they would say that!! Now, I could persue Warranty Direct at this stage to get them to prove that the fault was already there but this could prove costly for me due to all the "small print" in their policy terms that they could get me on so it seems (in my case anyway) that the SOGA is the way to go.

So, over the last week or so I've been swatting up on the Sale of Goods Act and it seems that I am entitled to ask the garage to repair the vehicle or to refund me. It's a bit mind boggling but I think I do know my rights now. Turns out that up until 6 months after the sale of the vehicle, it's up to the dealer to prove that the fault wasn't there when he sold it to me. Can't really see how he would do that so that must be a good thing. It's called the "Reversed Burden of Proof".

Now, if you've had the car for more than 6 months then it can be a little more difficult as it is then up to the purchaser to prove that the fault was there when it was bought - but don't be put off by this if you are convinced that you were sold a dudd - it just means that you might have to find an independent mechanic to do a report on the vehicle - the cost of this could then be reclaimed by you from the garage if it turns out that (in the opinion of the independent mechanic) the fault was already there.

Anyway, back to my story! The engine is still in my car at the moment so the dealer would have to have it stripped down (at his own expense) if he doesn't agree with me that the car had an inherent problem. If it does go to court (small claims court in my case) and he still can't prove it, I am entitled to ask for a full refund, interest, costs & compensation. So, from his point of view, he's got a difficult decision to make - either pay me back now or risk having to shell a lot more money - especially if he has to have the engine stripped down too.

I am also entitled to ask for a replacement car or hire car whilst we are in dispute. If the dealer declines to do this then I can recover any costs incurred for hiring a vehicle and add it to my claim.

Now, the

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