Consuming Issue with New Car

[yellowplum]

I wonder if anyone can help on an issue I am experiencing with my 123d M Sport. I have had the car since new and have now done around 13000 miles in the vehicle and had a service on the car (as well as a few other changes and fixes)


The main issue is that between 1500 RPM and 2500RPM in certain conditions I get flat spots when accelerating. It was diagnosed by a local dealer and when test driven with me it was apparent that the flat spots existed, they attempted to fix the problem by adjusting the EGR valve to be +40 (the whole car is computerised). However this did not cure the problem and I was still experiencing the flat spots.
I subsequently have taken advice from Consumer Direct on this issue and was told to go back to the dealer I originally purchased the vehicle from as my contract of supply is with them.

I called the dealer I purchased the vehicle from and was assured that someone would call me back and deal with it. No doubt no one did, I contacted them in writing with the usual Sale of Goods Act advising them that I wanted a long lasting repair, or replacement or a refund. They took the car in before Christmas and kept it to try and diagnose the problem. They reset the EGR valve back to the factory settings. No fault was found; (mainly because BMW diagnostics (the computer) said no fault found) they have now returned the car to me with nothing being done to it.
I wanted some advice as to what to do next. I am in the process of trying to get the dealer who acknowledged the problem to put in writing what they did to the car and what they think the issue is with the vehicle.

Although I need to know what to do with the dealer that I bought the car from since they are the people ultimately that I would have to deal with.

[42man]

An approach to 'What Car' might be a possible move or an official complaint to BMW's head office outlining the story...

[yellowplum]

I was thinking of something like that - well the complaint to head office anyway - but what I really wanted to know also was where I stand legally; how do I get them to either fix it or replace it.

[slick132]

Moving this to the Vehicles forum where you may get more opinion.

[raydetinu]

If you still have the problem, just take it back, leave it with until fixed, no matter what the computes say, if it is not running correctly they must fix it; does not sound sufficient to reject it at this satge.

[Andymod]

I am not familiar with BMW but the Skoda Fabia VRS suffered similiar problems which could be cured by drastically altering the EGR. unfortunately the manufacturer could not approve this repair due to EU emissions rules, So the slight hesitation and flat spots are described as characteristics of the engine. Might be worth searching the net for BMW forums, usually a good source of info

[yellowplum]

Originally Posted by Andymod

I am not familiar with BMW but the Skoda Fabia VRS suffered similiar problems which could be cured by drastically altering the EGR. unfortunately the manufacturer could not approve this repair due to EU emissions rules, So the slight hesitation and flat spots are described as characteristics of the engine. Might be worth searching the net for BMW forums, usually a good source of info

Funny enough this is there response today to me, can't do anything (even though if you disconect the EGR it does cure the problem) - characteristics of the engine. Nothing to be done.

Two points annoy me about this, one why did they not say this a year ago when I got the car. Two, they should atleast inform you of the problem when you purchase the car.

Oh well, looks like another case for court.

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by yellowplum

Oh well, looks like another case for court.

It certainly does. Many accidents have been avoided by accelerating out of trouble as other ways and a flat spot could be a safety issue.

Not of merchantable quality/not fit for purpose/inherent fault would be my argument.

[Prolix]

Originally Posted by Conniff

It certainly does. Many accidents have been avoided by accelerating out of trouble as other ways and a flat spot could be a safety issue.

Not of merchantable quality/not fit for purpose/inherent fault would be my argument.

You would need an opinion of an expert as to why it was faulty before you could claim a breach of Section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act. It seems unlikely though because if BMW themselves are saying that it isn't faulty then who is going to be more expert than them?

Incidentally, merchantable quality was replaced with satisfactory quality in SOGA because although something may be able to be sold (merchantable) it might not be satisfactory to the consumer. "Merchantable" was always skewed towards the retailers and "satisfactory" is far mor consumer friendly.

[slick132]

Before trying to take action against the seller, have you taken this up formally with BMW HO.

I may be naive, but surely they'd be concerned about their reputation. Tell them you've made every attempt to resolve this with the dealer, but they've said it's a characteristic of the car and you should just live with it.

Ask HO to confirm if this is THEIR opinion and would they reply in writing urgently.

[raydetinu]

Or go on a bmw forum where they may have encountered this problem before and offer some advice?

[yellowplum]

Hi,

Just wanted to update and get some advice. BMW got a letter of rejection but basically said we are not accepting the rejection.

So my choice is to issue proceedings against the dealer to recover costs. I have been to the forums and checked out peoples replies, they are mixed, most have argued that they don't get anywhere with BMW.

A couple have had them repaired and they seem to work correctly.

I haven't had any such luck and they won’t acknowledge the problem.

Any guidance notes on drawing up the particulars of claim? What can one claim for?

[raydetinu]

Have you had the problem fixed? by another garage?
I dont think you can reject it even if not fixed; not serious enough. Also if you do and write to the dealer accordingly you will have to stop using it!
If dealer not prepared to put it right get somebody else or another BMW franchise under warranty if still valid or pay for it and claim that cost back through the coourt.

[yellowplum]

The car has been rejected since they didn't offer a solution to fix it or replace it. They also haven't repaired it. No one else can repair it as it needs as it needs to be repaired by BMW themselves. It is all to do with the computer system.

[raydetinu]

Yellow, how old is it? Is covered by BM warranty, Have you taken it another bm franchise to see what they say. They have to put it right!
Is it on HP? they would also be responsible?

[yellowplum]

Originally Posted by raydetinu

Yellow, how old is it? Is covered by BM warranty, Have you taken it another bm franchise to see what they say. They have to put it right!
Is it on HP? they would also be responsible?

Paid in full by debit card, other dealer tried to fix it, now BMW involved and didn't want to do anything. It was purchased new April 2008, advised of the problem from purchase and given them ample opportunity to fix it.

[raydetinu]

Something must be able to cure problem? Get an Independant Engineers report and send that to BM, keep plugging away. Try an independant specialist in BM's. Some of these do know some short cuts. You may or may not be succesful at court, but worth a try as a last reort.

[yellowplum]

I got an email from someone on a forum post earlier that told me about their garage and how an issue similar was resolved. I have telephoned this afternoon and enquired. I am waiting for a call back with an explaination. However what they did tell me is that the vehicles in general suffer from hesitation to do with the EGR valve and that nothing can be done to correct them. She believed that the issue is more apparent on some cars than it is on others.

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by yellowplum

characteristics of the engine.

Not a characteristic, a design fault. Only nature has characteristics.

You will not get the amount paid back, you will have a deduction for 'enjoyment' even if you haven't enjoyed it.

Push them and threaten court action, make no doubt that a design fault is not acceptable.

[yellowplum]

Originally Posted by Conniff

Not a characteristic, a design fault. Only nature has characteristics.

You will not get the amount paid back, you will have a deduction for 'enjoyment' even if you haven't enjoyed it.

Push them and threaten court action, make no doubt that a design fault is not acceptable.

Ok then let me ask you this...if it is a charateristic that can not be fixed and it does inpeed on the 'enjoyment' at what point does it become too much to stand?

What is a reasonable amount? Could you quantify it?