Car Issues

[aj84]

Hi all, Story two of the day

Got an Audi A6 in March 2008 from a dealership up north (can name if allowed).

Went there as it was higher spec for almost £2000 less than the prices in London.
Phoned them, arranged test drive, drove up 200miles, test drove, and signed the papers (finance)

They said it would be delivered by Wednesday (it was Sunday when I went up).

They were 2 days late, made me miss work two on the due date and actual date, and even on the Friday, came at 6pm instead of lunch time.

Anyway moving on...
They gave me the car with the original finance papers. The manager there contacted me 3 weeks later to tell me that and I needed to send them back. So... I did after photocopying them.

2 weeks later, he again phoned to say they had no papers and was threatening to take the car back... I explained that I did, proved it with photocopies etc. He sent me another copy via email.
I signed it and faxed back as requested to be told it was unreadable (he fault for scanning so badly).

Moving into May and more threats, it finally got sorted and he got a good copy back.

This now meant that I had been driving around for 2 months for free and my finance payment (first one) actually came out in May.

That was Problem 1.

Problem 2 was that since I got it, I have had rattles after rattles. It has been in 9 times in 3 months for repairs, they fix one, another occurs...fix that and the first one re-occurs.

I changed dealerships finally as I was not happy with the one I went to for the repairs.

So far to date:
1. shock absorber changed.
2. Dash noise fixed/re-appeared
3. Steering rack replaced
4. Vents replaced
5. Speaker grills replaced
6. Chroming around the car replaced.

Thats all I remember for now, got plenty more.

Contacted Audi customer services and they were shocked as move of the above list it has been in for multiple times.

Now the dealership it is in at the moment, I am >very< happy with. They have constantly treated me with respect etc. I wenti n last friday to pick it up for a rattle fix but found it was still there. Showed it to the engineer and the service guy gave me a brand new 4x4 to keep until it is fixed (no set date and said he would not release my car until he personally was happy with it).

I was very chuffed at both him and the service overall.

Audi CS said as it was on finance, I should contact the finance company (which I did)... They in turn asked for all the communication and problems by fax which I will send later today/tomorrow.

What do you guys think of this...? I requested to Audi CS that I am not after a refund but a simple like for like replacement will be fine. I want to keep the car but I lose a day each time I have to drop it in/pick it up and after 9 times (3 days each time!) I feel the car is just falling apart.

On top of this, each time it goes in, it gets ripped apart and put back together with dents/scratches around the dash/vents etc.

I'm just losing confidence. I got 25k on finance in March whih started in May, settlement was 23k but the car value apparently is only 18k now (and i have neg. equity) so trading it in is not possible.

As mentioned, I am only after a replacement but unsure if anyone has had similar issues and come out of it successfully based on a car they have had for less than 6 months and is still under the original 3 yr warranty. Car was reg June 07, Bought it in March, started paying in May and is on 15000 miles now.
First owner was Audi themselves (demo car).

Thanks all.

AJ

Sorry for the long read but I hope it is in good enough detail.

[raydetinu]

Once you have made up your mind to reject the car under SOGA, which you must do this in writting to the dealer you purchased it from, explaining why and givingthe history to get the full purchase price back.Thats who you have the contract with. once that is done you must not use the car.
The other way is to keep on with the repairs either under warranty or SOGA by returning to the original dealer. Any other solution can only be done by negotiation with the original dealer.

[aj84]

Thanks for your reply. As mentioned I would wait for this repair to complete and decide on my next course of action from there on.

Got a call on Tuesday to say Car was ready - as I could not pick it up that day (and the following few days), I went to pick it up today (Sat morning) which was confirmed by them first.

Got there, got into the car, finally the sound had gone. But I have been in this situation before so I waited a minute in the car...and behold, its back.

Rang them up again from the car park and service guy said to bring it in, I will be put back in the loan car until further notice.

I still maintain that this dealership is excellent in its service and I'm sure, in it's repairs and that it is the car that is causing the issues.

There was discussion that the sales manager at the dealership of purchase may have been involved in a slight accident causing these issues including rattles, shock absorber replacements, and various markings around the car and re-spray on a single panel - all this in the first 5 months of the cars life!

I have therefore requested all paper work sent to me which the dealership of repair have said ok to though they warned that the place of purchase could havedone an "inside job" and fixed it up in-house and therefore not documented. Makes sense as the check on the car online brings back no accident damage.

I have therefore decided to pursue this now further and want to just get a full refund or a like for like replacement.

Can someone help me out in getting the ball rolling including any letter templates that might be available?

As an update, this is the 10th time it has gone in since March 2008 - a total of 27 days plus the recent 1 week bringing it to 34 days in the dealership/s. The car again is in now for however long so let's round it up to 40-50 days. Considering I've had the car since march, we're talking over a month it has been in giving me only 4 months with the car so far!

Thanks again

[Conniff]

Went there as it was higher spec for almost £2000 less than the prices in London.

Now you know why it was £2,000 cheaper.

Read soga before you ask for a refund, refunds depend on price paid as well as quality.

[aj84]

Conniff, Thanks for your reply though I do not agree with your first statement about why it was £2,000 cheaper. Most will agree that up north in comparison to London pricing is always cheaper. My family always buy their cars and even clothes shopping tends to happen up north!

Been studying SOGA as well as I can though some terminology involves the english dictionary!
I also came across an excellent advice guide from the CAB so I've been reading that too.

Today I contacted Audi dealership where I got the car from and explained the situation. To be honest, I have not got along all that well after the stuffing up the paperwork so I was reluctant to contacting them. The manager who contacted me back in April after my complaint about their threats is on holiday so someone else is investigating now.

I then called up VW Finance who my agreement is with and spoke to them. They gave me potential options to request from the dealership when they phoned back (if they gave no solution viable for this situation).

Firstly, according to the guide:

Buying from a dealer - what the law says

If you bought the car from a

dealer, the law says the car must:
• match its description. This means it must be as described by the seller. This includes any written description in an advertisement or catalogue; and

In my case, while the car is what it said it was, the colour is in-fact wrong - something we only found out when booking the car into the service team in London. It had a different tone of Black on the advertisement which is at a higher cost!

•

be of satisfactory quality. This means the car must be in reasonable condition, considering its age and make, its past history and the price paid. It must be fit for its purpose (for example, if you request a vehicle which is capable of towing a large caravan, it must be capable of doing the job). It must also be roadworthy. (It is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy car). A car is not roadworthy if its brakes, tyres, steering, or construction make it unfit for the road.
Personally, it is not of satisfactory condition given it's age. At the time of purchase, it was only 6 months old with 3 months sitting in the forecourt. It had done only 7000 miles. But there was a re-paint job, a shock absorber (on border line of un-roadworthy!) changed, a dash refit, a new steering rack - all in the time I have owned the car (few months!)

It does go on to say I do not have rights if blah blah blah but they dont apply to me so I will not mention them here.

Moving on......

Replacement or repair

If you bought the car on or after 31 March 2003, you can ask the seller to replace or repair it free of charge if it is faulty. If you do this within six months (It is faulty within 6 months of recieving the car) of receiving the car, and it is reasonable to expect it to have lasted for the period of time you have had it, it will be assumed that the problem existed when you bought the car, unless the seller can show otherwise. However, you can still ask for a replacement or a repair for up to six years from the date that you bought the car, if it is reasonable for it to have lasted that long. In this case, it will be up to you to show that the car was faulty at the time of sale. The longer you have had the car, the more difficult it is to prove that the fault was there at the time of sale.
If

:

•

it is impossible to replace or repair the car; or

•

replacement or repair would be unreasonably costly for the seller when compared with alternative remedies (Doubtful as I have already found a handful of identical cars for the same price and a few slightly higher price and higher spec which I am willing to pay the difference if needed); or

•

the seller fails to replace or repair the car within a reasonable time of having agreed to do so, or causes you significant inconvenience
then:
• you can ask for a partial or full refund. (While not ideal, I am ok with this idea though I prefer just a replacement as I want to stick with Audi. A refund would mean I would most likely go somewhere else this time for brand) The amount of money you get back may be reduced to take account of any use that you have had out of the car.

In accordance with compensation, this is also now possible because of the number of phone calls, time taken off work to collect/drop of the cars and the amount of extra fuel I have had to use to fill up the loan cars - some 3 times what I would pay in mine! Some dealerships charge by the mile for fuel so this has cost me a lot - considering most of the dealerships are atleast 30miles each way from me!



So that's my findings for today... please correct me if any of it is wrong but personally I think it is good grounds to stand on!

thanks all and maybe I need to put this in the motoring section as most of the advice i found was there!

[aj84]

I forgot to mention my findings from VW finance company.

Spoke to someone helpful there today and she basically said there were 3 options (before I stated any of the above).

1. a Nil to invoice? Basically, straight replacement, transfer finance over to new car.

2. Sell private and settle finance - not an option for me

3. Part ex at dealer - not an option for me.

Number 1 sounds great as its straight forward though I think I have to do this at the dealership I got it from which is a bit rubbish!

[aj84]

Hi all,

I truely apologise on a double post that I posted originally in the general forums... I am not getting any help there and I think this area is more appropriate.

Got an Audi A6 in March 2008 from a dealership up north (can name if allowed).

Went there as it was higher spec for almost £2000 less than the prices in London.
Phoned them, arranged test drive, drove up 200miles, test drove (very short as it was late sunday), and signed the papers (finance). Lots of issues with finance paperwork blunder by Audi but thats another story - car was delivered a week later.

Since I got it, I have had rattles after rattles. It has been in 9 times in 4 months for repairs, they fix one, another occurs...fix that and the first one re-occurs.

I changed dealerships finally as I was not happy with the one I went to for the repairs.

So far to date:
1. shock absorber changed.
2. Dash noise fixed/re-appeared
3. Steering rack replaced
4. Vents replaced
5. Speaker grills replaced
6. Chroming around the car replaced.

Thats all I remember for now, got plenty more.

Contacted Audi customer services and they were shocked as move of the above list it has been in for multiple times.

Now the dealership it is in at the moment, I am >very< happy with. They have constantly treated me with respect etc. I wenti n last friday to pick it up for a rattle fix but found it was still there. Showed it to the engineer and the service guy gave me a brand new 4x4 to keep until it is fixed (no set date and said he would not release my car until he personally was happy with it).

I was very chuffed at both him and the service overall.

Audi CS said as it was on finance, I should contact the finance company (which I did)... They in turn asked for all the communication and problems by fax which I will send later today/tomorrow.

What do you guys think of this...? I requested to Audi CS that I am not after a refund but a simple like for like replacement will be fine. I want to keep the car but I lose a day each time I have to drop it in/pick it up and after 9 times (3 days each time!) I feel the car is just falling apart.

On top of this, each time it goes in, it gets ripped apart and put back together with dents/scratches around the dash/vents etc.

I'm just losing confidence. I got 25k on finance in March whih started in May, settlement was 23k but the car value apparently is only 18k now (and i have neg. equity) so trading it in is not possible.

As mentioned, I am only after a replacement but unsure if anyone has had similar issues and come out of it successfully based on a car they have had for less than 6 months and is still under the original 3 yr warranty. Car was reg June 07, Invoice date is April 2008, and it was originally an Audi salescar/demo car.

Thanks all.

AJ

Sorry for the long read but I hope it is in good enough detail.

I have been heavily reading SOGA and other threads here and I think I can reject the car now. Im frankly fed up and dont want this car anymore. It is now in for the 10th time as the noise came back despite a new steering rack fitted.

My main problem is, the car is still with a dealership in London, but I got it from up north 200 miles away. My dilema is, if my rights are that I can reject the car, what do I do in the mean time without a car? How would I get there drop the car and get back? Am I liable to replacing it?

Thanks again all...

In the mean time, I have contacted the dealership up north and he said he would investigate and get back to me... this was yesterday. No reply, but I rang him today to be told he would ring back - he didnt.
I am thinking of calling CAB and Trading St. tomorrow if he doesnt call but I just need help now.

I am in need of a car due to my job and am having trouble keeping my mind at rest now with all the issues. Currently I have a Q7 Audi have given me as a loan car until further notice.

[Conniff]

Why not reject the car outright on quality as per soga?

If you have taken it back to the seller nine time then that is enough chances at repair and enough under soga to reject the car as 'not of satisfactory quality'.

You must do this in wiritng and you must not use the car again.

[aj84]

That is my intended way of a solution now. I finally got through to a manager at the original dealership yesterday only to be cut off half way. Called back instantly and he had gone home for the day!

I wrote him an email last night expressing my concerns, frustrations, problems with the car, and intended conclusion of this case. Also gave him till lunch time to get back to me as I have a meeting with CAB later on today (with or without his call)

I wrote on the email about rejecting the car and that I would put it in writing too.

My main concern is the following:

Firstly, lots of people seem to mention rejecting a car but dont explain what it involves.
1. Does it involve ME driving it back 200 miles to where I got it from or them - considering I am not meant to use the car if rejected... I dont see how this works.

2. Do I get a FULL refund of what I paid? (I'm on finance HP with no deposit paid at the time from what I remember)

3. Can I reject but get a replacement from ANY audi dealership or only at the point of purchase - or is it a refund only?

I suppose from the above, I need to knwo if I will be car-less. My work colleagues have said that there should be the potential of rejecting in writing however also making some sort of a deal of having A car to drive until a new one is bought as I would still be buying from Audi.

Thanks

[TheChancellor]

I would drive it back to the original Dealer (pain I know) give them a letter of rejection under Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) and the keys.
Take photos of it on their forecourt & have the Manager sign for it (on a copy of the letter).

Do it in the middle of their Bank Holiday trading!

I would want a full refund minus fair wear & tear plus compensation for all your time and expense taking it to & from the garage for repairs.

ie probably a full refund.

I can honestly say I have had less hastle than that with a 200 Quid Ford Escort never mind a 30 grand car !!

Good Luck.Keep us informed.

[aj84]

Thanks Chancellor, I think I actually bought it on a bank hol weekend too!
I suppose the problem there is going up there and not getting it which means a wasted trip. Risk I know!

I just had an interesting chat with consumer direct? Not sure if thats a name to mention here but it was free so I thought why not...
They said I >cannot< reject a car as I've had it for a few months and reject is only for the first few days/maybe 2 weeks.

What I would need to do is send a recorded delivery letter to the FINANCE company giving them 14 days to rectify ALL faults - if it is not fixed by then, There is grounds for a >partial< refund or replacement.

I did state I am not after a full refund but just replacement to what I actually bought rather than a vehicle that is riddled in faults.

[TheChancellor]

No, you're not rejecting it because you've changed your mind or the missus doesn't like the colour - you're rejecting it because it is not fit for purpose under SOGA.

You have given them ample oportunity to fix a new car and lost faith in it and them.

Any hassle and I would tell them that you are reporting them to TS and Audi HQ for passing off as new a car which has been repaired.


..... I hate garages, me lol.

[aj84]

ok bit more of an update, rang up the dealership where the car has been in for the last 2-3 weeks and they have now replaced the steering rack, pump, pipe and something else (I am due detailed paperwork from them)

HOWEVER, the noise is STILL there. They sent a report to Audi Germany who have come back to them to state this is an issue they too can see but have no solution for now.
Further testing will be done there and they will inform Audi UK about it but there is no timescale on it.

So no fix to be honest and I wont be happy with it.

[aj84]

TC, sorry I should state it was not brand new... it was nearly new - registered in June 07, drove around as a sales demo car, sat in the forecourt for 3 months until I bought it march/april this year.

TS is the next step I think as Audi up north has still not contacted me back reg and given the results of the above post (in the repairs...)

so a Rejection can be done on the basis of the not fit for purpose...thats good enough for me.

[aj84]

Called CS again just to update them and they took down details. Trading Standards will be put in touch with me in 3 working days -most likely wed as its bank hols

[old_andrew2007]

I was about to write that you could, however I see you have recieved this information recently on your other thread.
I agree with posts on that thread, and your complaint trading standards, you will have a wait as you know because of the Bank Holiday.