Advice needed over 2nd hand faulty car

[blinky2134]

Hello,

A week ago I bought a nearly new Vauxhall Zafira. The next day it went back in as it had a rattle coming from the front. This was solved as it had a loose heat shield...No problem I thought! Also on the same day the car stalled, I was driving along doing 60mph and dropped down a gear. The whole car just switched off!No power steering etc. I stopped the car and started it up again, thought nothing of it but at the end of the road it did it again. I booked the car back in and the engineer took it for a test drive with me in the passanger seat. He could not get the fault to re-occur and it was put down to a one off.
Today however I came out of the supermarket and the car started but immediatly stopped again. I could not get it to start for around 10 mins. The car would not turn over and the dashboard lights (Engine warning, oil temp etc) did not light as is usual when starting the car. Also at this point the headlights switched themselves on!!!
Anyway I kept trying and eventually phoned the AA but about 2 mins after coming off the phone I managed to get the car started!

I took it back to the garage and it is now waiting on an engineer looking at it tomorrow. My questions are, as it is a NetworkQ car and has a 30 day exchange policy I would like to take advantage of this. However if the garage cannot reproduce the fault is it not my word against theirs? The manager I spoke to said we needed to give them the chance to fix the problem. How many tries do they get? This is the second time it has been in for the same fault inside 2 weeks!

Lastly what happens if they say they have fixed it but after a month the same happens, what rights do I have to an exchange then?

My wife and me are quite upset by all this as it was a lot of money (To us) that we spent on a new car only to find we may have bought a dud! We also go on holiday next week to France by Car!!! I dont want to break down abroad!!!! But also the garage manager said he was not sure if it came to it, whether he could get a replacment in time!

[patdavies]

I am surprised that this is attempting to be diagnosed via a test drive - has nobody thought to interrogate the engine management system for fault codes? The system holds a history

Or at least, reset it and and see what occurs between reset and the next failure.

[blinky2134]

They have tried reading the codes but this is where the problem lies. The system has no error codes stored in it! Today they called to say I coule pick the car up as they cannot find a fault! What do I do? They refused a refund/exchange as they say they can find no fault!

[JonCris]

blinky the 30 days exchange no quibble offers are nonsense.

There should be displayed alongside them the statement "this offer does not effect your statutory rights"

The reason is that you are, should you need it, better protected in law particularly in the 1st 6 months.

You don't have to prove fault they have to prove it isn't faulty & as it's now a matter of the engine management record, they are stuffed.

However, as they could 'wipe' it I would advise that you go to another dealer & have the system interrogated by someone who doesn't have an Axe to grind

[blinky2134]

The problem is that the enginer managment system is not storing any error codes. Therfor the used car dept are saying there is no fault. They also know i am taking the car to France next week so the 30days exchange will be worthless after that as I will have done over 1000miles. Consumer advice said it basically is my problem as I cannot prove the car has a fault!
The repair section of the garage are however a bit more helpfull and this afternoon they ordered a new Ignition plate? So we might be getting somewhere. I would still have liked to be able to have taken advantage of the replacment offer and had a similar replacment car but it looks like this is a non starter!

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by blinky2134

They have tried reading the codes but this is where the problem lies. The system has no error codes stored in it! Today they called to say I coule pick the car up as they cannot find a fault! What do I do? They refused a refund/exchange as they say they can find no fault!

As I have already stated before I read you latest post you don't have to 'prove' there's a fault they have to prove there isn't. & just checking the management system isn't good enough.

As I previously suggested they might 'wipe' the system but if you go to another expert they will be able to tell if the 'wipe' has taken place whilst in their custody

Also as I doubt this fault is isolated to your car I should search the web to see if other owners have suffered simular problems

You could start here: Vauxhall Zafira - Engine Management light - Used Car Forums

& here:
http://forums.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-forums.showdiscussion/thread_id-30706/1ba840c4.html

[JonCris]

'Consumer advice' are, not for the 1st time very wrong.

I despair. Where do they get these advisor's?

In the 1st 6 months you DON't have to prove a fault & if you take it to France & it breaks down it'll cost you a fortune.

Your also taking one hell of a risk with the lives of the occupants should it suddenly fail on the motorway

Better to hire a car for the trip & claim the hire charges from the dealer as part of your action as I doubt any court would in the circumstances say you acted unreasonably

[carbonlife]

Who are you dealing with in the garage where you bought the car? With this kind of problem I'd write to the group MD explaining the nature of the problem and, since they have had the opportunity to fix the car, pointing out that, should you decide to take the car abroad, you will hold them responsible for all repair and towing charges while on holiday as well as damages. Tell them that you consider that the fault is potentially dangerous and that their potential liability is far greater than the profit they have made on selling the car. Give them a couple of reasonable choices either to replace the car or to provide a temporary replacement while they take your car in for further investigation.

The fact that no fault codes are showing doesn't tell you everything. Some faults simply won't show in the log. Yes, you have statutory rights but this doesn't really help much to get a working car for your holiday. The garage WILL have a car they will lend you if they feel it is justifiable. Just point out that you're reasonable and that their potential liability is huge and they'll suddenly find a car for you. If you have a video camera or a phone with a video, take it around with you all the time and film the car as soon as it misbehaves.

[JonCris]

Sorry carbonlife but I suggest your mistaken to advise the OP to use the car to go to France, even with the threat that if it breaks-down the garage can be expected to pay.

Whilst this may be the case it certainly would ruin the trip & cost a bomb to get back to the UK & the court might say you where foolish to take it abroad knowing it was faulty & refuse full compensation. It's called mitigating any loss.

In addition as I have already commented the OP owes a 'duty of care' to the passengers & if it fails on the motorway there could be an accident.

Best to hire one for the trip & pass the cost on to the garage

[carbonlife]

Sure, maybe I wasn't too clear but I wasn't actually suggesting that blinky takes the car abroad - just that he points out the potential liability to the garage should he choose to do so. Perhaps, as you say, it is better to tell the garage that he intends to hire a replacement car and will seek to recover the costs from the garage. You can be sure that a NetworkQ garage does have a replacement car for you under these circumstances - it is simply a question of showing them that it is in their interests to provide it to you.