Stupid bill from Powergen AGAIN

[Karnevil]

Hi, Hope this is in the right place...
After reading another thread I thought I'd call powergen and see if they had sorted out the mess they made of my electricity bills, and the easy answer is NO !

June 2006 -- just called him to get bill amount for March to June as I was thinking about it - - £3200 it has my balance at - so I guess they havent quite sorted it out yet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think I will be filing a claim for expenses here ! Do you think I can ? I am sure they owe me some money - the massive increase in the DD payments (£35pcm to £121 pcm!!!) caused a lot of other stuff not to get paid...

The guy from powergen is calling me back in a few minutes !


last year my electricity jumped from about £200 a quarter to suddently £700 a quater - and they put up my DD's from £35 a month to £121 a month !!! which of course caused loads of problems with other DD's and small things like affording FOOD.

I AM HOPPING MAD

Turns out the readings were being transposed - I'm still waiting for it all to get sorted out - but have got my DD's back down to £50 a month while its sorted.

I'm with Powergen and you can go online to view all your bills and enter meter readings - which I have been doing regulary now...but still !

My electric is quite high because we have no gas/central heating so use 2kw heaters in the winter months (as little as possible) and supplement it with coal fires in the eves. NO heating at all in the summer (actually we put out heaters in the garage from April to October so we're not tempted to turn them on)

Aslo the timeswitch on the meter is out by an hour - which they came to fix today at five to nine - just as I was taking the children to school (duurrrrr) so guess I will have to wait a few more weeks to get that fixed.

I have posted my last bill amounts below so you can see what I mean....

08 Mar 2006 133.31
04 Dec 2005 213.68
23 Sep 2005 288.79
06 Jun 2005 101.21 - they credited some back here but it complicated to work out how they worked out how much to credit.
19 Mar 2005 721.14
16 Mar 2005 189.06
17 Dec 2004 977.95
09 Sep 2004 94.10
10 Jun 2004 66.19

Any advice on what to do ? I am talking with powergen almost daily and giving them meter readings all the time - but the guy came to actually read the meter on the 6th and its all cockeyed again....

I have no idea becuase the bills are so complicated if I have overpaid (as I suspect) and how to prove it to get my money back/

Any advice greatly appreciated ! Thanks guys.

[Switch]

I am to having problems with Powergen. Prior to moving across to Powergen my quarterly bills for Electric and Gas combined were around 200. My first quarterly bill came in from Powergen at 766.66, bear in mind this was in the middle of summer so no heating and everyone is out at work during the day.

I kicked up over the bill and despite giving them readings they said first off that I did not know how to read a meter they then informed me that from the readings I gave them the amount was correct.

I paid them based on my previous bills 230 and told them to demonstrate to me how my bill was so much since they had taken over.

I suggested that maybe someone should come round and test the calibration of the meter, they refused so I refused to pay them until such that they looked into this.

There is now 2,300 owing to them going by there inflated bills, they can take me to court for it I live in a small close and the other residents have kindly given me copies of there bills which average around 180 to 250 per quarter so whats different about my house I wonder. Although I am unable to locate an RCB labelled Millenium in my power distribution box, maybe just maybe I am the powersource for the Millenium Stadium, which would explain why my electric meter goes ten to the dozen.

The frustrating thing is I really want to change suppliers, but they will not allow this until the outstanding bill is cleared.

Will see what happens.

[Karnevil]

They are really bad aren't they - though to be honest they have seemed to try and sort it out for me at cust services.

I have no idea how to work out how much I actually should have been charged since this began - I called energywatch and they gave me a reference to chivvy them along on Monday.

[installspark]

@ Switch

Was this your first bill since changing to Powergen, if so are the start reads correct?

If the start reads are incorrect then this could be the cause of the unexpected large bill.

If it is not your first bill have previous bills been based on estimates and the latest bill on an actual read?

If previous reads were estimates and the latest an actual then it will be classed as a catch up bill due to previous underestimation.

Originally Posted by Switch

I paid them based on my previous bills 230 and told them to demonstrate to me how my bill was so much since they had taken over.

I suggested that maybe someone should come round and test the calibration of the meter, they refused so I refused to pay them until such that they looked into this.

Making the token payment based on previous bills, albeit from a previous supplier, is a good move as it shows to Powergen that you are willing to pay your bill even though it is in dispute, and is something that I always recommend to customer's in your situation.

Before any meter calibration tests can be considered you should have been asked to do a series of readings over 7 days and make a list of all appliances used and for how long. This would then give Powergen an indication of your daily useage on the meter and expected useage from appliances used. Any major discrepancy, ie 2% fast 5% slow would indicate a possible fault with the meter.

If a fault was indicated the first test would be thestandard load test. This gives a general indication as to the accuracy of the meter. If the results of this test indicate a potential fault a check meter istallation would then be arranged. There is a charge for this test which would be refunded if it was proved that your meter was inaccuarate. The check meter runs in parrallel to your service meter and is calibrated before installation. The check meter would be in your property for approx 28 days. Readings are taken on installation of both meters, again after 2 weeks and on removal of check meter. The reads are compared against what the service meter has recorded as your useage in this period and if found to be more than 2% fast or 5% slow then the meter is classed as faulty. If this proves to be the case your account would be rebilled to allow for any inaccuracy of the meter.

Stating that you refuse to pay your bills because Powergen have refused to initailly check the meter will probably have been noted on your account as ultimately this will go to their live debt teams for persual. If the bill remains unpaid for 114 days then there is a possibility that Powergen will apply for a Magistrates warrant to enter your property to install a pre pay meter.

I would advise that you do 7 day reads with list of appliances and then call Powergen back.

@karnevil

From what you have posted it would appear that the original transposition occurred in Dec 04. A lot of transposed reads appeared around this time in your region due to a billing system change and the manner in which the new system expected reads to appear on the account. This comes down to the day and nigh rates, the system, at that time expected the day rate to be on R1 and night rate on R2.

However in the Eastern region the meters were set at Night being R1 and Day being R2. It is a relatively easy problem to sort out once it is acertained as to how long the readings have been transposed. Most of the time it is possible for Powergen to just rebill the acount from start. Occasionally however, especially if there has been a meter change at some point during the read transposition, it can become a complicated and time consuming process as it can involve a lot of manual calculations in order to adjust the account correctly.

In your case it doesn't help that the timeswitch was also faulty as there are further adjustments that need to be made in order to correct the account for the period in which the timeswitch was faulty. The Energywatch enquiry will spped the process up somewhat as Powergen will have 14 days in which to make an initial response. Powergen will probably respond that the matter is in hand but due to the complexity of the query will be unable to give an accurate timescale as to when the query will be resolved.


Hope this helps

[Karnevil]

Thank you for your comprehensive answer - sounds like you know what you are talking about.

The current situation is this;

Powergen are recalculating the bill back to when the meter was installed in November 2003.

They are currently checking what readings the meter was installed at.

In the meantime they have calculated my bill back to June 2004 when the confirmed? readings were 00720 and 01250 ~
(which I think is wrong anyway as there is another confirmed reading December for 15160 - which makes it from November to June I used 2000 units and from June to December I used 13000 units - which is a bit mental really!)

and I now have a lovely bill of £2954 !
plus the payments I have made since June 05 of £900 odd.

I've told them I will write the appliance lists down for them with average times on etc. and do 24 hourly readings for a week.

So see where that gets us.


Will keep you posted - might well need some more help very soon !

[kevb0444]

Hi. Powergen are terrible. I started getting huge bills finaly swiched to a card meter so i could keep track of my own spending. When they fitted the meter (back in oct'05) i owed them £266 so they set my meter up to take £6.00 a week to repay the dept. Anywho....i'm now moving house and swiching to southern electric (who currently supply my new place) so i phoned powergen to see how much i owed on my dept (shouldn't have been that much) and was told i owed them £1055!!!! They said this is possibly due to the fact the rates went up in march and no one came to re-set my meter. WTF!!!! So now trying to get them to sort it out.

[installspark]

@ karnevil

Although most new meters are installed at 0 reads this isn't always the case. Going on the presumption that the install read was 0 on both rates, a roug calculation will givee a daily useage of 3.41 units night 5.92 day which for the winter period in an all electric house is abnormally low. From this I would be leaning towards incorrect installation reads in November 2003.

When the meter was change Siemens should have left a card near the meter with the removal and installation reads of the meter. Have you checked the current reads against more recent actual reads on the bill and are they in line, albeit possibly transposed?

By doing the 7 daily reads and appliance lists Powergen will be able to get an actual daily useage and be the nable to work back the reads. However with this being done in the summer it will affect the night rate more as you will be using less. What I normally do in this situation is multiply the average night useage by 2.5 and work back to a read, bill the account to date from the new start read and advise the customer that because like for like comparisos cannot be made on the night rate there is room for discrepancy although after 12 months of billing this will be easily rectified, ie have actual night rate useage during the winter period.

I hate accouts like this for 2 reasons. Firstly it is frustrating for the customer as they don't know where they stand except for having an abnormally large bill, and trying to find someone who can understand the problem can be difficult. Secondly these types of accounts are problematic to resolve as there are so many variables to be taken into account before an accurate and acceptable solution can be found.

@ kevb0444

By now you will have repaid approx £216 of the debt back. To have a balance on the account of £1055 would suggest that either Powergen have not been receiving the payments to your account and/or overestimation has taken place. Even if the meter wasn't reset when the price increase happened it would only account for approx £50 - £80 depending on your useage.

[Karnevil]

The only parcel tag meter change ticket on the meter is the one from June 03. We had the meter changed in November 03 when we moved in. (from card meter to 'normal' meter ) No ticket was left for the november change.

I should hear back from powergen today to confirm the start readings the new meter installed in November were - there was no ticket left regarding that changeover.

I've written the list for powergen, and they should be coming back to me with the start readings on the new meter (November) this morning.

I went through all the bills from June 04 took all the ACTUAL readings and put them in order for Powergen - and these all seemed to be in line and scan okay. The big jump was from 0720 to 15000 odd so I do think it is a problem with the first 6 months of the new meter.

I'll know more later though. Thanks for your input - I really appreciate it !
+++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
edit: have got new bill now - readings DAY -9/4/04 728E - 6/9/04 8828E - 29/11 13364 E - 31/08/5 28213 E - 10/3/6 38527 -22/05/06 42469 READ
NIGHGHT 9/4/4 2481 Actual - 6/9/4 4674 E - 29/11/4 5902 E - 29/11 9923 E - 10/3/06 12716 - 22/5/06 13784 READ

On the WITHDRAWN BILLS bit there are CUSTOMER READINGS on 19/03/05 of DAY 8436 C - and NIGHT 2516 C
which don't fit in with the new estimated readings at all.

[installspark]

@ karnevil

see that you have had 2 years of estimates on the account. This would give rise to a catch up bill, however I am not too happy with the reads on the account.

Breaking it down to a daily figure you are showing an average of 14.22 units on Night rate which is reasonable, however on Day rate you are showing an average of 53.99 units. Without knowing exactly what you use in your household on a daily basis, this figure at face value seems to be excessively high.

Have Powergen worked out you actual daily figures and the expected daily figures from appliance list that you gave them?

Also the amount of estimates on the account is unacceptable, even though Powergen will say that they are only legally required to read the meter once every 2 years, your account has over 2 years worth of estimates. Do not let Powergen try and shirk their responsibility by saying that you have a culpable responsibility for the reads as you have already provided one set to Powergen in May last year. Also query the read of 09/04/04 as the Day rate is an estimate and the Night rate showing as an Actual, ie read by meter reader. Siemens who read the meters in your region are known for giving weat are called Coffee Shop reads, they also are known for not having records of all reads/meter exchanges that have occurred.

What are the current reads on the meter, taking the 1st 5 digits left to right?

[Karnevil]

Current Reads: Rate 1 - 13913 (night rate)
Rate 2 - 42829 (day rate)

now since april 04 I have paid them £1086 - and they have stated this new bill is from April 04 - where there was an actuall reading for the night rate of 2481, and an estimated reading for the day rate of 0728 (so I would swap these over as the night rate should be the 0728 and the day rate 2481 in my opinion) and the full bill total June 04 to June 06 before they account for discounts, payments, withdrawn charges etc they have worked out to be £3806. So this minus my payments give a balance of £2720.... which scans with the total due on the statement which says it is £2794.

So basically I think I'm B*gg*red and have no idea what to do next. If it is a catch up bill because of their incompetence in taking readings I expect there is nothing I can do. £146 electricity bill per month is ridiculous and there is no way I could pay it. I hardly live in a mansion !

They are calling me back later today to discuss the account.

[installspark]

OK,from the reads 22/05/06 to the reads today you have used the follwing on a daily average:

Night 4.03 Day 11.25.

These averages are consistent with what I would expect to see on Economy 7 at this time of year.

Going on the presumption that the new meter was installed on reads of 0 on 01/11/03 the daily averages are:

Night 14.55 Day 44.80

This gives a split of 24.5% on Night and 75.5% Day. This percentage split is inconsistent with an all electric house and points towards a timeswitch fault that has been ongoing for a long period of time. As a minimum I would expect to see a 40/60 split in the useage.

Powergen now need to make adjustments for the faulty timeswitch that you had, because of an estimated account it is going to be difficult for them to work out exactly the split between day and night useage unless there are a good set of actual readings prior to the meter change in November 2003.

I would advise in respect of the outstanding balance that you try and get Powergen to spread this over a period of 24 months, i.e at least the same period as you have had estimates for. This is what Energywatch would also say to Powergen.

[Karnevil]

Wow ! You are good at this.

So if I call them tomorrow and basically say what you have told me, they should reduce my bill a fraction, get the time switch put right, and spread the repayment of the undercharging over the next two years.

I've just started with CCCS so its been a bit of a worry.

Thankyou so much for all your help. I'll let you know what they come back with.

And don't worry - I will be giving them monthly reads from now on !

[installspark]

Originally Posted by karnevil

Wow ! You are good at this.

So if I call them tomorrow and basically say what you have told me, they should reduce my bill a fraction, get the time switch put right, and spread the repayment of the undercharging over the next two years.

I've just started with CCCS so its been a bit of a worry.

Thankyou so much for all your help. I'll let you know what they come back with.

And don't worry - I will be giving them monthly reads from now on !

That's what they should do. There are no guarantees that they will do this as Powergen like to give away as little as possible. You may need to speak to a supervisor/manager in order to get this as the agents don't like taking responsibility for this thype of adjustment even thoug they are able to do it. If all else fails a threat to make a complaint to Energywatch should do the trick if they are not willing to spread the balance over 24 months.

[Karnevil]

Hiya, Loads better today - got a 'secret' phone number off of EnergyWatch - called and went through basically what you have said before - and they have reworked my bill to being only £1360 in debit. Still a lot, but seems more realistic now, AND I can pay this over 24 months ! Yippee.

I'll let you know the details off of this bill - it should come through in the next couple of days.

Thankyou for all your help ! I'll stick some rep points on for you !

[installspark]

Originally Posted by karnevil

Hiya, Loads better today - got a 'secret' phone number off of EnergyWatch - called and went through basically what you have said before - and they have reworked my bill to being only £1360 in debit. Still a lot, but seems more realistic now, AND I can pay this over 24 months ! Yippee.

I'll let you know the details off of this bill - it should come through in the next couple of days.

Thankyou for all your help ! I'll stick some rep points on for you !

Does that include adjustments for the faulty timeswitch.

Been my pleasure helping out.

Here's hoping that a certain company that wot sponsors weather doesn't find out I'm here otherwise time for another b******ing

[Karnevil]

Hi,

Have been able to view my new bill today, and they seem to have made some major changes. At 22/5/6 they have written two readings marked I (which I take to mean new meter installed) and at that point switched over the day and night readings. Obviously there was no new meter installed then so it looks as though they have decided to say all the day readings up to the 22 May are now being charged for night rates, and all readings for night are now being charged as day rates, then from 22nd May onwards they have put it back to the correct way round.

Does that make any sense at all.

I'm happy as my bill is more manageable - I can pay the excess over 24 months - and there won't be any future problems with the readings as they are the right way round now.

There won't be any comeback later down the line if they decide no, a new meter wasn't actually fitted on the 22nd ?

[installspark]

Originally Posted by karnevil

Hi,

Have been able to view my new bill today, and they seem to have made some major changes. At 22/5/6 they have written two readings marked I (which I take to mean new meter installed) and at that point switched over the day and night readings. Obviously there was no new meter installed then so it looks as though they have decided to say all the day readings up to the 22 May are now being charged for night rates, and all readings for night are now being charged as day rates, then from 22nd May onwards they have put it back to the correct way round.

Does that make any sense at all.

I'm happy as my bill is more manageable - I can pay the excess over 24 months - and there won't be any future problems with the readings as they are the right way round now.

There won't be any comeback later down the li