Going to court with British Gas - Help please!

[christinerefc]

Hello everyone and thank you for your excellent site - it's a real encouragement to stand up and face big businesses that can make your life a misery.

Just to know you're not alone is a real benefit in itself.

British Gas have been causing me sleepless nights for over a year, and eventually I threatened them with court action in the hope that this would elicit a response. When there was none I filed a small claim against them, pretty much in desperation. Obviously I should have spent more time in preparation - they are going to 'see me in court' and I would appreciate ANY words of advice.

So if you have the time (it's probably worth getting a cup of coffee first!), I'd like to tell you my story.

The letters pretty much sum it up so I'll start with them:

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To: British Gas Trading Limited

23rd October 2006

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: Ms. XXXXXXXX
Customer Reference XXXXXXXXXXXXX

In December 2003 I had a new central heating system installed in my flat and you provided the gas supply where previously there had been none. Between then and July 2005 you took no meter readings, and I paid promptly on your quarterly estimated bills.

When you finally did take a reading that month, you billed me on that basis and demanded immediate payment of £939.90. I live alone in a modest two bedroom flat, am out at work all day. The only gas appliance is the new combi boiler I had installed; the central heating is on for a maximum of four hours a day during the cold months only; and the amount you requested for that quarter was more than twice your total estimated bills for the preceding fifteen months.

I immediately queried this, and so began a dispute that has now been ongoing for fifteen months and which you appear to have lost interest in resolving.

In the months immediately following this bill I have had numerous dealings with your various departments in an attempt to seek a solution. The following has already been established:

• Your meter readings have recorded usage well in excess of similar flats including one in the same building that has the heating on all day.
• A week of daily readings prompted one of your employees to comment that the alleged gas usage was “equivalent to a small business”.
• The reported gas usage over a timed period was beyond the rated maximum for my combi boiler when there are no other gas appliances in the house.

At my insistence you finally replaced the meter with a new one on 8th June 2006, and promised to check its accuracy and provide a full report within six weeks. Four and a half months have passed since then and in spite of numerous calls I am still being told just to ‘wait’.

Your billing department, on the other hand, appears to have no intention of waiting. Since agreeing to pay by direct debit I have had an ongoing and losing battle to avoid paying the disputed amount until it is resolved. The hundred pound a month you requested was far in excess of my actual usage as recorded by the new meter (recorded usage 8th June to date a mere 48 units – perhaps twenty pounds in total cost). Not content with this you have also on three occasions actioned direct debits well in excess of this amount: 27th Feb, £243; 29th March, £389.50; 28th July, £138. In each case I have suffered overdraft costs and charges and been forced to go through the process of having the direct debits reversed. Your most recent letter of 13th October insists that I pay £439.54 immediately to avoid further action.

I cannot begin to express the frustration and distress this matter is causing me. I need central heating for the winter; I cannot afford to pay £439.54; you have systematically stripped my bank account of a significant portion of the original disputed £939.30 which was due to the original gas meter that has already been established beyond reasonable doubt to be faulty.

I am frankly shocked that British Gas, a company whom I have always highly regarded for integrity and expertise, should operate my account in this way. I therefore give you a further 14 days to report on my original faulty meter and adjust my reported gas usage since installation or failing that credit my account with the disputed £939.90.

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively within this time period I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe this target is more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

Yours faithfully, etc
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Other than computer generated responses I received no reply, and so sent them the Letter before Action as I'd promised:

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British Gas Trading Limited

6th November 2006


Dear Sir or Madam,

LETTER BEFORE ACTION


template letter removed , please do not post our letters on the forum but you may link to them in the libary
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No response. Now at this stage I should probably have sought advice, but I was incensed that STILL no one was listening and, buoyed up by the Money Claim site I issued a claim.

The particulars of the claim I kept to a minimum, though I now realise that I should have been far more detailed.

My Particulars of Claim read:
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The claimant claims the sum of £939.90 in respect of erroneous gas charges. The claimant also claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the 1st August 2005 to 2nd December 2006 of £100.74 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.21.

-----------------------


The claim was made on 4th December; an acknowledgement was received on 11th December; and a defence was filed just before the deadline on 8th January.

I now have until the 28th January to file the allocation questionnaire at my local Court to which the claim has been transferred.


The Defence filed was as follows:
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1. The claimants claim is insufficiently particularised for the defendant to understand the basis of the claim.
2. It is admitted that the claimant disputes thegas bills issued by the defendant upon the basis that the meter fitted to the claimants property is defective.
3. This situation is governed by statute, whereby the meter is tested by an independent third party, at the consumers request.
4. The test results can take several months to be completed, over which the defendant has no control.
5.In the interim the defendant is entitled pursuant to the Gas Act 1986 (as amended) to rely upon actual meter readings as being evidence of the quantity of gas supplied.
6. It is noted that the claimant was advised by the defendant on or about the 30 November 2006 that it was chasing the results of the meter test.
7. Accordingly, issuance of the current proceedings by the claimant are premature and unreasonable conduct, especially in the light of the defendants agreement in September 2006 to reduce the claimants direct debit payments from GBP70 to GBP40 until the dispute has been resolved, and also place a 'block' on the account such that the disconnection and/or debt recovery steps were not taken by the defendant.
8. It is also noted that the meter was neither fitted by the defendant nor is it the defendants property.
9. The defendant reserves the right to counterclaim outstanding arrears from the claimant which currently total GBP 617.65.
9. In the premises, the defendant denies liability as alleged or at all.
--------------------------------


In respect of the above defence, I'd comment as follows:
Re: 1- They seem to have a bloody good understanding of the claim!
Re: 3- I wasn't aware that the meter was not being checked by British Gas - they took it away and promised it would be 'calibrated'.
Re: 4- In the numerous phone calls over the months prior to them eventually agreeing to check the meter they confirmed more than once that it would take around SIX WEEKS.
Re: 6- I have been told time and again to wait.
Re: 7- There have been numerous calls over my direct debits -it took until September 2006 to get them to reduce it to GBP40 a month, when on the new meter records I'd only used GBP20 in the previous quarter!
Re: 8- I'd no idea it wasn't their meter - I contracted with them for a brand new supply and as far as I was concerned they'd installed it.

Anyway... there we have it. The dispute has been going on for nearly twenty months. They finally took my meter away to have it tested because overwhelming evidence showed it to be wrong over six months ago. During all this time I've been fighting a losing battle to stop them taking the disputed amount, and I'm more than happy to go to court and explain all this.

If you've managed to follow the story this far, thank you for listening.

ANY advice as to how to proceed will be gratefully received - I have the questionnaire on the desk in front of me and no doubt will have to prepare court packs etc. As I said I should probably have taken advice in the first place but I'm here now and I'll keep you all posted on the process.

And thanks again for listening, I feel better already!

[buzby]

I think the judge will be well-versed in how BG conduct their business, and the fact it is often impossible to get any satisfactory response. The closest I got to my meter being 'checked' was when an emplyee came, turned every gas appliance on at full blast for 2 minutes to calculate the maximum possible usage. I was then told it was 'normal'.

On the day before I arrived in court, they agreed to wipe the bill of £600-odd which I had disputed, plus £50 for dealing with debt collection agencies, and 17 letters to EnergyWatch, and my MP. I switched to EDF and never had a problem since. (And the meter is still there and working fine).

You'll get many Brownie points for turning up and saying their inability to communicate since the inception of your contract has led to the current situation.

[christinerefc]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Raymond, that's very encouraging!

Whether they'll back out at the last minute in my case remains to be seen, but I'm determined to stand my ground.

I'm just a bit worried in case there's anything I should be doing on the questionnaire rather than just the basics... particularly the witnesses and other information sections?

Also whether there is anything I can do at this stage to flesh out my limited Particulars of Claim that they whinged about?

Any ideas?

[buzby]

I've often found less is more - only state your argument without embellishing it or conducting your case in writing. Your claims is quite basic, and if you keep it simple but keep notes that you can refer to with all your points cogently made, ready to tell the judge when asked, you won't go far wrong. You'll always get more leeway than BGs solicitor, so don't be panicked! Also have a statement prepared to rebuff ant request by BG for a delay, as they have known about this issue for long enough, so to ask for a continuance for some (unspecified) reason, just proves to the court their ongoing inability to resolve issues internally.

[MARTIN3030]

I notice Energywatch have been mentioned here,but not in a positive light.
Its worth mentioning that Energywatch are the regulators for BG and the usual lines of complaints before legal action is to involve them for arbitration.
I have used EW for both BG and Scottish power complaints and they dealt with both quite quickly and smoothly with results in my favour.
I cannot speak for Buzby,but BG can cite in their defence that you did not follow the road through the regulators.
If I am not mistaken this is a part of the criteria of a complaints process in their codes of practice.

[buzby]

Irrespective of their codes of practice, as a consumer I am not contracturally bound to deal with any intermediary shoild I not wish to do so. Neither would any legal action I take be deemed incompetent or invalid because I did not raise my complaint through the Regulator.

(If proof be needed, look at all the CAG members who have taken they financial institution to court bypassing the Financial Regulator, and invariably succeed).

There comes a time when you do not receive the satisfaction of a proper response and meet a brick wall. Faced with taking court action or hoping the Regulator will see my side of the argument, I go for the 1st option each time. Others may not wish to do so but it remains their right.

The actions of Scottish Gas were preverse, and EW were incapable of stopping the flow of threatening mail and all because a meter reader transposed 2 digits, they just couldn't be bothered responding to my series of letters. In the end, it was my MP who got them to take notice, just before court papers were served. So, go with EW as another string to the bow, but they are not the only final arbiter when problems areise. AS for Postwitch.... they're not even worth a stamp!

[MARTIN3030]

I dont think we are talking about Postwitch,but undoubtably you have had problems with them as well...
If all these regulators are not doing their jobs properly then maybe it would be a good idea to complain to them and ask why ?

[buzby]

I just remembered I had dealings with them also, but the trouble with these industry 'regulators' is that they become intertwined with their firms they deal with on a regular basis. I'm sure there's more familiarity than we realise, but as long as we can look after ourselves if we want to, then it doesn;t really matter. Unfortunately, we're all paying for them even though we may not want to.

[gillytilly]

Originally Posted by MARTIN3030

I notice Energywatch have been mentioned here,but not in a positive light.
Its worth mentioning that Energywatch are the regulators for BG and the usual lines of complaints before legal action is to involve them for arbitration.
I have used EW for both BG and Scottish power complaints and they dealt with both quite quickly and smoothly with results in my favour.
I cannot speak for Buzby,but BG can cite in their defence that you did not follow the road through the regulators.
If I am not mistaken this is a part of the criteria of a complaints process in their codes of practice.

I have been having a problem with BG, I paid them £114.84 on 1st Jun 06 (my own fault) I wrote to them and they told me as I didnt have an account number they couldnt find it. When I rung the second time the lady said it would be easier to find my money if I joined BG. I agreed then I emailed EW and within 3 days i got a letter from BG...... Blah, Blah Cheque is in the post as a good will gesture ect.

I would recommend using them first every time

Sorry for hijacking

Gilly

[buzby]

Originally Posted by gillytilly

I would recommend using them first every time

Gilly

Even though they are the acknowledged most expensive utility company in the country? I don't expect to pay more simply to have someone competent to deal with my service issues!

[gillytilly]

Buzby, I was referring to using EW everytime. Today i have received my nice cheque for BG with an apology.

Gilly

[progenic7]

Hi Christine,

firstly let me introduce myself, My real name is Johnny and im a corgi registered plumber have been for 18 years.
A few things stand out immediately to me, British Gas are wel known to be one of the (edit) around especially on installations, The famous BG service is well known in the trade (it takes them about 30 seconds). They also tend to charge about 60% more than anyone else for a boiler or fire installation. So sorry dont believe the (edit) you see on the adverts, i wouldnt be surprised if you paid £3000 - £3500 for that combi boiler. It should have been no more than £1800 !
Ok to the point british that is if they are the shipper..ie the ones that you pay to provide your domestic gas have a duty of care to either read the meter every six months or arrange for you to read it for them.
Upon receiving the new meter and your new connection being made they should have taken the meter reading then (as they have to take the meter point reference number at that time).
Also to back that up when you received the welcome pack from BG about your new connection they should have rang you and asked for it, before supplying you gas.
I'm wondering what kind of meter it is (i know you probably wont know) but yes your right it is certainly faulty and giving a bad reading. Though the other scenario is that the meter wasnt zeroed at time of installation and it may have been reading many cubic metres from day one, hence the massive bill. (if nobody read it at the time then nobody would know huh )

The other
possibility is that your nice new combi has or had a serious fault and was using a serious amount of gas. Its perfectly feasable that the meter was faulty and indeed your boiler was also faulty. Its a shame you didnt get them to test the meter infront of you at that time, let me guess the meter is long gone right ?

What i will say is that BG let you down big style, they failed in their duty of care to you. (btw do you have BG service plan ? )
They didnt read the meter when they installed it and they should of, they didnt ask for the reading when they turned the gas on, and they should of. They didnt test the meter for you, infront of you and let you have the data, and they should of !
So in my opinion you certainly have a case. I know this doesnt get you any heating in the winter, but go get them !
if you need any more help just ask ok....

[DampProof]

Hi Christine..... Just some moral support if you have not yet resolved your problem with BG. The advice from buzby & progenic is absolutley spot on and could not think of anything further to add. I had already successfully taken BG to court last summer, before I became a member...my story was in The Sunday Times Money section this week.
However if there are any specific questions on the court process I can help you with please drop me a line.

Kind regards

DampProof

[hollyash]

Hi

Can someone please let me know how often British Gas have to come out to read your meter, they have not read mine since December 2005 they are now trying to pin a £1000.00 electric bill on me.

I have been paying them between £20.00 and then £34.00 a month for electricity. I only live in a 1 bedroom flat.

I have looked at the ofcom web site and can't seem to find the information I am looking for.

Regards


Holly Ash