Letter from Water Supplier to 'Occupier'

[theintrepidfox]

Hello

Wondered if someone can give me some advice on what the best action is. I have been living in a property consisting of nine flats for a year of which two flats receive water bills, the others don't. The doorbell went last week and it was someone claiming to be from my Water Supplier wanting to take some personal details. Obviously I refused and requested in writing whatever they have to say. I only communicated through the intercom and didn't give any information

I got a letter from the water supplier to 'THE OCCUPIER' saying: 'Welcome to your new home. This is to give you some information concerning your water services charges. Your property is fitted with a water meter and charges blablabla.. to make it easier for you, setup a direct debit, form attached.
Letter includes a Customer Number and Account Reference.

Now the questions are:
The water supplier opened an account after a year in name of 'The Occupier'. Obviously I will not ring them and admit to the account nor update them with my details. If they want to do so they can use the Electoral Roll and why haven't they done so in the first place?

Are bills to 'The Occupier' enforceable in case they will send any?

Why do only two flats in the property get water bills? It seems to me that they try to recoup some money from others whom moved out recently and didn't pay.

In case we get a bill, can I deny it and insist on a water meter being fitted for MY flat as it's obviously not a fair situation to pay for the other flats water consumption or on a based estimate.

Thanks for your thoughts and time.
Enjoy your BHW!!!!

[wino]

Hi theintrepidfox and welcome to CAG

Any letters I receive addressed to 'the occupier' get filed in the bin!

Can I just clarify about the water meter is it one meter for the whole building?

[theintrepidfox]

Hi Wino

I had a look around the building (the dark nasty corners with scary big spiders) and can't find any. Also rang our maintenance guy who knows every creek of the floorboards in this building and he wasn't aware of one. Inside nor outside. It wouldn't be under a manhole cover? The manhole covers I found are either too small to house a meter or have never been opened in a hundred years.

Spoke to one of the flats which receives a water bill and they told me it's unmetered. They are paying a fixed rate of £19 a month. The letter I got from the water supplier states £12 for fresh water and £18 for waste water a month for the average household and they asked to setup a direct debit for £30 a month.

I think it's unfair that my neighbours get charged and we not. Can THEY do something about it? They got a baby and need every penny.

Martin

[wino]

At the end of the day we have to pay for utilities we use whether were skint or not. When you moved in did your lease say that water was included in the rent? If not then you will be liable for a seperate bill.

I pay £36 per month and I'm in a 3 bed semi with a husband and two teenage boys (the type that do wash ) So £30 per month for a lone person in a flat seems a bit steep to me.

I would leave your neighbours out of this as the water people might decide to charge them more :o

As I said earlier anything tha comes to my door addressed to The occupier gets filed in the bin.

Someone with a bit more knowlege in these things will probably be along later hopefully in the mean time I will have a look around and find out what I can.

[theintrepidfox]

Hi Wino

Thanks for your response and the figures. Much appreciated. I'm not disputing the fact that we have to pay for what we use. I'm vary of applying this thought to water companies though as they give a damn about a corroding and leaking system. You get the idea..

Interestingly, I have asked aaround in my building and a single mother with a six yr old receives an unmetered bill of 36.40 a month whilst the flat below with two adults and a baby is paying an unmetered £19. Same number of bedrooms with one flat slighly bigger. Based on your figure, that some in our building are revceiving no bills and some others for completely different amounts raises the question how they justify and calculate the charges. Having done a quick check on uSwitch showed that based on our consumption the water company would potentially overcharge us £130 a year if we go unmetered. I'll start a separate thread about how they make up their figures as it seems not right, fair and copmpletely random!

[wino]

I have checked with my friends a couple with two teenage boys in a four bed house. They are on a water meter and averaged out they pay £35 per month.

The amount you are being charged needs to be disputed. The only thing is do you want to reply to a 'Dear Occupier' letter or wait until they have your name. If you wait there is the change of bigger monthly payments to cover arears.

[v_j_r]

Just for the record........from June 1999 water charges were no longer treated as a "Priority" debt! by any enforcement agencies and the courts, therefore anything you may owe as debt or in the future as a bill is not a priority and as such you can make an offer of which you deem acceptable!.

So therefore when and if they get heavy and/or threatening use the above!!.

Best Regards.

[bigpeterlg22]

i thought i would put my 2 pence worth in, as i work for a water a sewage company and have done so in various role including customer services, bill generation/integrity as well as collections/recovery.

a occupation form is sent out to each property when no-one is registered. it is usally followed up by a send occupation letter threating disconnection in the case of my company if no response to the 2 letters, a first visit to confirm if occupied, get occupier detail or if not a second visit to do the same. if occupiers details aren't able to be gained after it is confirmed to be visited it enable us to write to the owner/landlord and make a formal demand to confirm who is there and who is ultimately responsible for the bills.

for an account to be raised in the name of the occupier, someone must suspect that someone is living there and has sent a bill out to promote a response.
an bill to an occupier isn't legally recoverable via a court due to not being able to confirm the identity of the occupier, however during the recovery process my utillity company will arrange for someone to visit the property to confirm who is occupying it enablerling who is occupying the address and the name on the account can be change from the occupant and recovery can continue.
it will be down that person then to prove that they aren't responsible for the whole debt on the account that was in the name of the occupant usually via a tenacy agreement to prove the date they moved in.

with regard to intrepid foxes situation, most water and utility companies use rv for rating of the flats, it could be that the water & sewage company are only holding records for 2 flats at that address for the make up of the property and therefore a possible revaluation would need to take place or utility company informed to adv more than 2 properties make up the premises.
It would be worth checking on the valuation office website of Valuation Office Agency - homepage to confirm how many properties they list as this could also have an effect on things such as council tax.

Also only 2 properties could be occupied on the utility companies system or the other occupants could be paying via rent with the owner paying via a common billing agreement.

my company is following the following the process with regard to properties:
all new connections/supplies are having a water meter fitted to them.

all new split/built property without a water meter gets a default rating of 180 on the rv scale in the one area i work in or the 2 other area the companies they company takes into account other surround property and charges an average rv at the moment, however, the water and sewage company i work for is currently visiting all blocks of flats and houses of multiple occupantion in all areas to do meter surveys for them to see if the properties can be individually metered, a meter that would serve the whole property with the landlord taking responsibly via a common billing agreement and then charging the occupants for charges or if a meter is not possible, an assessed charged based on the number of occupants of each flat/bedsit.

you can request a meter theintrepidfox, however you the water and sewage company will expect you to pay the bill until it will be confirmed if you can have a meter or not and then you can be charged on unmetered water and sewage upto six weeks after the meter is fitted but then the bills will be recalced to the day the meter was fitted or until you have been advised you can't have a meter and assessed charge put in place based on the number of occupants.

with regard to the comment on non priority debts, although water is being classed a non-priority debt the water and sewage companies will be expected to be paid on par with the gas and electric. they will usally take into account other priority debt such as ccjs/csa/ court orders, rent/mortage and will into account arrears with the other utuillity companies but anything else will be classed as a non-priority debt.

[theintrepidfox]

Thank you v_j_r and for that very detailed info from bigpeterlg22
My apologies for the late response.

News:
An annual water bill of around £110 to 'the occupier' arrived today!
It works out at around £8.68 a month whilst others in the property pay £35, £36, £25 and £19 a month. All roughly same sized properties with roughly the same number of occupants.

As it said 'metered' on the bill I went on a search and finally found them at the pavement. Scaring away the spiders I was able to do a reading of the meter that's supposed 'ours'. Thing is that it did spin when no one was using water so I got suspicious. With my fiancee opening and closing taps I was finally able to find the correct meter and got a reading.

Bottom line, the bill we received is not for our meter.

Question is how do I go from here?

When we moved in there's no mentioning of the meter on the inventory report from the letting agent and we did not receive any opening reading. We are responsible for water bills though.

The utility company didn't sent any correspondence in over a year. Their fault. Sending a bill for the wrong meter, their fault. Charging for the month previously we moved in, their fault. I read somewhere that some utility companies can't bill for anything older than a year but that this applies to gas and electric. Is that definitely not the case for water companies?

Does anyone know what will happen if I contact them and say 'look, wrong meter' and how will they work out the bill if they haven't got an opening reading even for the correct meter? I have every right to refuse a bill that is incorrect apart from the monthly standing charge they may be able to ask me for?

Thanks for your effort and thoughts.

[theintrepidfox]

Originally Posted by bigpeterlg22

A)
..it is usally followed up by a send occupation letter threating disconnection in the case of my company if no response to the 2 letters, a first visit to confirm if occupied, get occupier detail or if not a second visit to do the same. if occupiers details aren't able to be gained after it is confirmed to be visited it enable us to write to the owner/landlord and make a formal demand to confirm who is there and who is ultimately responsible for the bills.

B)
for an account to be raised in the name of the occupier, someone must suspect that someone is living there and has sent a bill out to promote a response.
an bill to an occupier isn't legally recoverable via a court due to not being able to confirm the identity of the occupier, however during the recovery process my utillity company will arrange for someone to visit the property to confirm who is occupying it enablerling who is occupying the address

C)
and the name on the account can be change from the occupant and
recovery can continue.

D)
it will be down that person then to prove that they aren't responsible for the whole debt on the account that was in the name of the occupant usually via a tenacy agreement

A)
Water Industry Act 1999 does not allow disconnection in England & Wales. Am I wrong? So it's a breach of OFT guidelines?

B)
I don't disclose any personal details out of principle. I assume that contacting the landlord is a very questionable practice, being in breach of OFT guidelines by the supplier and the Data Protection Act by the landlord.

C)
Not so fast. I got the 'crossed meter' up my sleeve. No opening readings so don't hold your breath for any payment.

D)
I'm not actually as the bill started from a month BEFORE moving in.