Hunted by British Gas

[captain_walker]

Synopsis:
A bill from British Gas landed on my floor in early September 2007 for an arrears of £600.

They admit to errors in their meter reading agency and other errors in billing dating back to November 2003. They knew of the problems seemingly since Jan 2007. In checking I discover that I had not received a bill for May 2007.

A series of letters and telephone calls were exchanged. Despite repeated requests for evidence of a mathematical calculation of the 'arrears', BG provide the results of the calculations on two occasions but no evidence of the calculations - as they normally would on their bills.

The block and unblock accounts without letting me know. I am reassured that I would not be penalised by their £14 fine for the notice, but then I am fined. Oh not to worry I have very good evidence for all that I say.

Then I'm confronted with a disconnection notice -D-day is 17th December.

So what is beating me is that according to BG anybody could just knock and my doorstep and demand an arrears, and I'm not entitled to ask for and be provided with a reasonable standard of evidence to substantiate the claim. It seems all the more important if it is a utility company because electricity services are essential to modern living. I can't run my deep freeze on log fire power.

It gets 'better' according to their meter readings my electricity consumption doubled in the last 1.8 yr period compared to the previous 1.8 yr period. Look, I'm not joking - our household has reduced in number with son going of to Uni and other events that took wife abroad to work etc. Appliances? Same lot for last 8 years. Summer 07 bought a new additional deepfreeze. Actually the suggested increase in our power consumption according to BG's figures is 217%!! How do we do that?

We'd have to leave every thing on for long periods over several months. We didn't. How on earth do I prove that? We don't have CCTV at home recording 24 hours a day for 4 years. You see what I mean?

We've asked meet them and they ducked behind apologies for not having the time. I've clearly stated in writing that I have the means to instantly pay any reasonable properly evidenced arrears - but I really can't see what legal principle obliges any citizen of this country to pay up to some bully who bangs on their doorstep demanding money.

Okay - I hope that's not too long for just the introduction to the problems. I would be most grateful for your ideas and responses.

[2Grumpy]

Is the disconnection notice a court order, or is that the date of a court hearing

I think that you need to contact energywatch immediately and write to BG special delivery stating your case. You need to write a summary of the problems (including the threatened disconnection) folowed by a detailed list of what has gone wrong etc.

Tell them what you want:
Threat of disconnection revoked - in writing
Penalty charges removed - the bills were in dispute and they knew that
Copy of missing bills
Actual calculations where you say it is wrong

It might help if you could work out what you think you owe them and pay that. At least pay something - unless they owe you - that will make it more difficult to disconnect.

I have had incorrect calculations before. They seem reluctant to show their calculations, especially at price changes.

If you have readings, prices and a calculator or spreadsheet you can work out for yourself what you are expecting.

Things do get more complicated with estimated readings.

Your elec bill might be high this time if the previous reading was a low estimate or current is a high estimate or for a longer period.

n.b. what are the errors in readings and what is causing the bills to be wrong?

Grumpy

[captain_walker]

The notice doesn't look like a court order. It is on BG paper. The notice of disconnection is printed in black in a pink box (on otherwise white paper). They invite me to contact them to avoid disconnection a £361 fine and £14 fine. So I called them. But it gets complicated as it always does.

There support person told me in a conversation on the phone, in the previous week, that the account will be blocked and I rested assured that £14 fine and disconnection were not going to happen (at least so soon). Guess what? When I call back after receiving the disconnection notice they say they had unblocked the account - but of course I'm not telepathic and they did not notify me.

I had sent two letters sent by recorded delivery (and they received them). I was very very very clear about the situation. I was extremely clear in my request for the kind of calculations I wanted because I provided them with my own calculations e.g. 3x2=6 etc. By the way BG complaints managers seem not to know what a 'calculation' is. And amazingly I get the results of two calculations that did not match. The arrears matched but other intermediate figures didn't.

A third for fourth letter (losing count) will reach them tomorrow morning at 09:00 documenting that I was reassured by their debt collection team on the phone yesterday that I am not down for disconnection. Well you know what that means - morining of the 17th they could pull up in their van.

About a week ago I paid £100 and yesteday I paid £194. This leaves only the core figure disputed of £600. Of course the £294 is payment for calculations that I can see. I'm going to deal with possible meter calibration issues separately. But already I see that BG believes their meters are made by God - well I mean better than God because even God makes mistakes - and BG's meters (or whoever's) are perfect.

Because I had researched the nonsense that BG was up to (according to reports in this forum and others) I was brutal in my documentation of everything. Dates, times, durations, names, who said what etc. And because I'm good with IT the whole thing is immaculately timelined and mindmapped ready to 'deliver'.

Get a load of this: hoping that ImageShak image shows up - else: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3553/bgtable001dr0.jpg. 'Total units of electricity' means what they say we used. These are not the meter readings themselves.

Based on what we are lead to believe are correct meter readings between May and Sep 07 we have used on average £52/month. [Accuracy of the meter is something I suspect may be wrong, even if a remote possibility].

The May 2007 meter reading is about right. We have no evidence at home and we do not know factually if BG's figure for usage between 2003 to 2005 is accurate. This is the crazy problem. They could say anything! But yet they admit in writing to repeated errors. Well, how is any reasonable customer to believe what they claim. They seem to hold all the aces.

Many thanks for your thoughts and I'd be delighted if there are any other ideas or angles to look at. Best regards. Captain_Walker.

[midas..not]

nice to know youv'e got it in hand, you really should contact energywatch though.... you could have been a 80 yr old pensioner with a bad heart!!!

[captain_walker]

I've contacted the Energy Ombudsman's office. They won't touch it unless there is a final letter from BG saying that dispute resolution can go no further. But of course BG ain't giving such a letter in this case - they're simply went for the jugular. So part of the purpose of the last letter was to see what they would do. As my matter is >12 weeks no final letter is required. BG now have 10 working days to respond.

But the Ombudsman is toothless in restraining an energy supply company from cutting me off. This is what the Ombudsman says. So theoretically the Ombudsman will act after I'm in the cold. How lovely is that?

How does one decide whether to go Ombudsman or Energywatch? Is there a way of deciding which is better in which circumstances? Pros and cons?

[2Grumpy]

I thought that you could go to energywatch at any stage if you have problems that are not being resolved - I did. If you can't progress with the ombudsman, go for it, especially with the threat of disconnection.

Can you ask BG to put the "no disconnection" in writing, since you have the notice of disconnection in writing. Ask them to fax it/send as an email attachement.

Do you have your old bills / statements. They should show your usage, including any estimates, in the past. If not, you could explain to BG that they might be able to partially resolve this by emailing you the content of their bills for the period you need.

My gas bills went down quite a bit when BG replaced my gas meter (it had gone round the clock

Grumpy

[captain_walker]

They caved in!

Basically they found a way to write off the £600 as a gesture of goodwil. Following on from where I left off this is roughly what happened.

1. I called up the Energy Ombudsman. They were very helpful. Basically the advised writing to the head of complaints Angela Mancini at BG.
2. As the case had gone on over 12 weeks there was no need for a final letter from BG stating that resolution had failed.
3. So I wrote to Angela Mancini seeking a response within 10 working days. As you might expect she delegated one of her lovelies to respond.
4. I outlined that it appeared that may electricity consumption according to their figures had doubled. [Which was quite frankly barking mad - well I didn't say that].
5. They did some further calculations and basically wrote did this gesture of goodwill thing.

The figures returned in that final letter shows something really amazing, that I wanted to share with you all. And I'd be grateful for comments.



[Admittedly, I made an error originally in calculating percentages. The above table is now correct i.e. 217% corrected to 117%.]

Now look at the percentages. The red-circled figure now suggests that my electricity consumption actually decreased, instead of doubled as I had written to them telling them in the final letter, before Xmas. How does that happen? I mean how on one occasion they suggest my electricity consumption was 117% then it's down to -7%? Huh!? The figures in the lower table were the ones in the final letter from BG, where they decide to settle.

Whew! Relief. But at what cost? About 26 hours of work and 4 sleepless nights.

[nicsussex]

Originally Posted by captain_walker

[size=5][color=red][b]Whew! Relief. But at what cost? About 26 hours of work and 4 sleepless nights.

But of course a full apology from BG to make it worthwhile?

[captain_walker]

Well they apologised yet again. I mean this was like the 5 th apology through the whole ordeal.

Apology doesn't mean much in these kinds of circumstances. You know, it's like someone slapping you about the face, then says sorry, then slaps you about some more, then says sorry again, then does some more slapping about, then says how really sorry they are, then kicks you in the teeth, then says sorry, then kicks you in the goolies, then says sorry...have you got the picture. Then finally releases you and says "sorry for the way I treated you".

I was living life normally, paying me bills and me triple taxation in a tax-mad country, going to Tesco's, doing the 9 to 5 like most other people. Then drops this bombshell through my door. My life is turned into turmoil. Yes I know it's only £600 and others have been hounded for far more.

You know the crazy thing in all this is a that after a while you begin to doubt yourself. You begin to think "Maybe they do have it right". May be I did leave on too many lights, made too many cups of tea etc etc. At times I began to think "Hmmm..may be it isn't worth the bother".

Anyways, it seems to be over for now. But I'm watching all my utilities bills like a hawk.

[IIIUMINATI]

Hi,
Good to see you had the bill canceled and rightly so.
What about the time you had to spend to correct this situation ?
ok £600 is a good result but the and letters confirming that they had made a mistake may allow you to claim compensation
How about 20 hours work @ £50 per hour (garage rates) plus telephone costs (£1000.00).
You could issue an invoice and if you were unable to obtain payment you could then sue British Gas through the small claims courts.(this can be done on line)

any comments or advice please

[captain_walker]

They made a 'gesture of goodwill'. I don't know exactly what legal obligations apply to 'gestures of goodwill'. If I sue, can they retract the gesture?

What's this about 'garage rates'? Is this about a 'garage' or some kind of terminology?

In a sense every customer like me would consider the 'dog and bone' story i.e. I've got off, so chasing after them for compensation could lose me more money. They are very big and I'm sure their legal expenses are all budgeted for centrally. So they could use their legal muscle to wear me out.

I wonder if others have experience about the probability of success in suing them for costs due to their carelessness.

[IIIUMINATI]

Garrage rates just using this rate as a fair rate to charge
the rate you would pay your garrage to service your car
good solicotor may charge £300/£400 per hour

[demon_x_slash]

The rate set by the courts for work undertaken by a claimant is £9.25 per hour.

[Dipply75]

I understand what you have been through. i too have had £600 ish on dispute (for 5 years!), been through the endless arguing, the worry, the frustration of the 'ask 3 advisors and get 6 different answers' game. I too have metaphorically beat hell out of politely although I don't have my big apology yet. Loved that analogy by the way, choked on my cuppa reading it - so spot on lol.

I would say have a a quick check of the meter serial number (should be imprinted on the front of you meter) against the one shown on your bill. If even one digit is wrong then this is the problem.

I discovered this morning BG have been billing me for an address over 100 miles away for 5 years! The whole time I have been arguing my bills werent right. 2 digits wrong, called BG last night and was told that makes no difference and basically implied I was trying to invent issues to avoid a bill (GGGGRRRRR). Phoned Energywatch right away and by this morning BG admit the lies.

So I will definetely be going for compensation and would advise you to do the same. They put me through hell, lied directly to me and they will keep doing this to people. Take the only thing they care about - money. Would be interested to see if your meter number is the is the problem as BG said this is SOOOO rare but energywatch said if there is any change of supply details this is when they mess up the meter numbers.

Well, hope your problems with them are at least over now!

[captain_walker]

Hi All, I thought I'd return just to post this link about BG Sues Accenture for Billing Shambles (Times 2008-05-11). Please spread around the word.

So in reality BG knew that quite a proportion of its bills were possibly inaccurate. But guess what? They still billed us, bullied us, threatened us with legal action etc etc - and simply knew that a proportion of us would have caved in.

Fortune favours the bold! Headaches too. LOL.