virgin charges+default removal

[c_allen]

Hi all, heres the story so far,
S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and cca request sent 13 nov 06, nothing until yesterday, i have been chasing these up for months, all the usual, so i'm about to send my own version of a prelim and would like other peoples opinions

Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the S.A.R . however the infomation is incomplete. There is no copy of ''A signed true and certified copy of the original default notice'', as requested. I have never received a default notice, so I can only conclude that no such document exists, so the default your company has placed on my credit record is unlawful. I require you to remove the default and all adverse information, from my credit record immediately
On the 13 nov 2006, I made a CCA request for ''A signed true and certified copy of the original credit agreement''. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement within 14 days, but you have sent me nothing as of today the 10 may 2007, even though you cashed the cheque for £1, on 21 nov 2006, which was sent to pay for this. I can only conclude that no such document exists, so the default your company has placed on my credit record is unlawful. I require you to remove the default and all adverse information, from my credit record immediately
I also sent a Formal notice to desist from processing or disclosing personal subject data. once again you have completely ignored this request, if you do not understand the legal implication of doing this then i suggest you contact your legal department.

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account.
I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.
Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.
Your responsibilities
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. Unlawful charges have contributed to the default, therefore the default is not accurate, and therefore unlawful, and should be removed immediately.
What I require
I calculate that you have taken £26 plus £10 which you have charged me for my S.A.R. plus £1 for my CCA request, Total £37.00, and the removal of the default and ALL adverse information.
My targets to resolve this matter
I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.
If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.
After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.


this is really about the default removal, but the £37 will help

[buzby]

Sorry - you've got it all wrong. There is no CCA requirement, you have a Service Contract with the cable company, not a credit one, so they'll be wiping their tears of mirth at your attitude for ages. You ARE entitled to your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and they charge you £10 for it, if you've paid and not received within the timeframe, complain to the Information Commissioners Office.

[c_allen]

cheers for that, i realised that about a month ago, but i sent the request last nov, before i found out, i don't want them crying in that way , but other than that, is the rest ok.
they did accept the payment for the cca so is there anyway i can amend the letter to reflect this? i'm trying to do this as i'm typing, but i'm struggling to word it

[c_allen]

On the 13 nov 2006, I made a CCA request for ''A signed true and certified copy of the original credit agreement''. I now understand that you don't have to provide this information as the contract is a service contract and not a credit agreement, but you accepted payment for this and have not provided the document.........


this is the best i can come up with, but it's not really making much of the point, if they accepted the payment then surely they've done somethng wrong in not providing the info, ie; accepting payment for the request, then have they accepted the request, no matter that the request was made in the mistaken belief that the request was right. if any of that makes sense, lol

[meagain]

Originally Posted by buzby

There is no CCA requirement, you have a Service Contract with the cable company, [...]

Originally Posted by NTL

Residential Customer Service Agreement

Hire agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

The duty to supply information for hire agreements is in section 79, while the OP stated 77/78 (they are thinking of running account credit, which is 78 ). Of course, this shouldn't make a difference, as VM should be well aware of this fact, being unable to trade otherwise.

[buzby]

Originally Posted by c_allen

On the 13 nov 2006, I made a CCA request for ''A signed true and certified copy of the original credit agreement''. I now understand that you don't have to provide this information as the contract is a service contract and not a credit agreement, but you accepted payment for this and have not provided the document.........

They would have kept the money until it was clear what you actually wanted. If you said the fee was for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), that would be OK. Alternatively, if they felt you got it wrong (requesting CCA info) then they could simply have credited the money to your account, so no SAR would be forthcoming until/unless you pursue it.

[buzby]

Originally Posted by meagain

The duty to supply information for hire agreements is in section 79, while the OP stated 77/78 (they are thinking of running account credit, which is 78 ). Of course, this shouldn't make a difference, as VM should be well aware of this fact, being unable to trade otherwise.

The Hire Agreement is simply a catch-all, previously the receiving equipment was hired/loaned to the subscriber, or they could purchase it outright. This is now only of historical significance, as they no longer make an equipment charge and bill it in this way, so the CCA reference is effectively redundant.

[meagain]

Last time I checked, the equipment still has to go back at the end of the contract. Redundant or otherwise, if they wish to declare this as a regulated agreement, they should be prepared to accept all the baggage that comes with it, such as the duty to provide information under S79. They can hardly turn around later and say "well, actually it's not really a regulated agreement, we just said that to cover our backsides".

[c_allen]

so are you saying that basically the original request, although flawed is still ok?

[c_allen]

the cca fee was a seperate cheque from the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), they've cash both 6 months ago, i've just receive the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) info, nothing for the CCA, i made it very clear what each cheque was for, i no longer have anything to do with VM, so they couldn't credit it anywhere, so they've kept it, knowing that the request was in error, so they've got some answers to find if they want to argue with me about it, i know it's only £1, but they've kept it knowing that they shouldn't .
i think i'll risk them laughing and send the letter as is, theres still enough to force them to remove the default even without the cca, and if they want to argue the toss about the cca then i'll cross that bridge when i come to it

[buzby]

Meagain and I differ, as they'll argue they are not in the business of 'selling money' and therefore need not comply with CCA issues. For your situation you'll reach a conclusion faster without reference to CCA than you will, with.

[c_allen]

i'm just trying to score the point in case of court appearance.
but i get what your saying, thanx to you both

[buzby]

The default will not disappear if it was genuinely applied to your account because of non payment. If there was an error, then yes. The CCA argument requires a different criteria which was not relevant to your issue, so I cannot see how a complicated complaint letter will assist when all you need to say is the default placed on my credit file was incorrect because....

If it wasn't, and you hope than non-CCA compliance will get it removed against their wishes, you may be disappointed.

[meagain]

If the CCA is not an issue, then VM have no business recording information with the CRAs.

[c_allen]

this is what i'm stuggling to work out, if their not covered by the cca because their nothing to do with credit, then how can they issue defaults, and register them with CREDIT ref Agencies. surely if this is true then they have no legitimate interest?? am i making sense?

[c_allen]

another point is that if they don't provide the agreement, then i've not consented to them processing my data, and if it does exist then the agreement for them to process my data ended when i cancelled the agreement, again am i right in thinking this??