Sky Package (No Broadband)

[dw190]

I am seeking the opinions on the following which was placed in another thread with regard to terminating a package contract with Sky.

Last weekend I went to try and sort out the Sky Broadband of a work coleague. He has had the installation since mid March and has spent over four hours on their support line.

They sent him another router but the problem remains. He has has an expert on the case from the local computor shop who concluded the same as me. "No Broadband comming down the BT line". My own checks with a known working modem confirmed the above.

I telephoned Sky Broadband on his behalf and went through the whole of their procedure again only to be told they would have to check the line which would take 48 hours. I asked if they would respond with the results of the line test which they agreed. Needless to say they have not responded and still no Broadband.

Also the installer has connected the coax from the dish to the house side coax of the Cable Companies box on the exterior wall to save having to run a new one through the house to the tv. To do this he had to break the seal on the box.

I am starting another thread seeking opinions on the position my friend is in and the best way forward to terminate the contract.

[SoB]

Hi dw190
I have also had major problems with sky after changing from virgin media to sky's "see, surf, speak" package. I had a broadband connection but no email. In total, I have spent 4 hours 30 mins on the phone to them at a cost of £30 in phonecalls and they still have no idea why there is no email connection. I found that, at best, their staff were incompetent and poorly trained and at worst, treat customers with contempt. It's like if you haven't got a bog standard question to ask they have no idea what to do.
I finally lost patience with them and have sent their router back with a letter of complaint which notifies them of my intention to cancel the contract. 3 weeks later and still no reply. The basis of my arguament is that if they cannot provide the service that they are charging me for then they are in breach of contract.
Fortunately I hadn't cancelled my contract with virgin media for broadband. As one ISP is via cable and the other via phoneline you don't need a MAC code to change. If they ignore my letter and still try to take the full amount via DD from my account I'll have to cancel the DD and maybe lose sky tv.
I also found that the router cut out quite often and the internet connection was lost. They may want to threaten court action but it's a chance I'm willing to take. I have also found a way to change your ISP via phoneline without a MAC code if your friend is interested. Good luck.
SoB

[dw190]

Originally Posted by SoB

Hi dw190
I have also had major problems with sky after changing from virgin media to sky's "see, surf, speak" package. I had a broadband connection but no email. In total, I have spent 4 hours 30 mins on the phone to them at a cost of £30 in phonecalls and they still have no idea why there is no email connection. I found that, at best, their staff were incompetent and poorly trained and at worst, treat customers with contempt. It's like if you haven't got a bog standard question to ask they have no idea what to do.
I finally lost patience with them and have sent their router back with a letter of complaint which notifies them of my intention to cancel the contract. 3 weeks later and still no reply. The basis of my arguament is that if they cannot provide the service that they are charging me for then they are in breach of contract.
Fortunately I hadn't cancelled my contract with virgin media for broadband. As one ISP is via cable and the other via phoneline you don't need a MAC code to change. If they ignore my letter and still try to take the full amount via DD from my account I'll have to cancel the DD and maybe lose sky tv.
I also found that the router cut out quite often and the internet connection was lost. They may want to threaten court action but it's a chance I'm willing to take. I have also found a way to change your ISP via phoneline without a MAC code if your friend is interested. Good luck.
SoB

Thenks for your reply.

I have drafted him a letter which was sent "Special Delivery" quoting Breach of Contract and Terminating forthwith. I have told him to leave the DD for the moment as there is a payment due on Tuesday (the same day they should receive the letter).

I have also requested a refund of payments made and told them to collect all their equipment.

What I really want to know is what does these See, Speak & Surf packages fall in to. Individual contracts or all one contract.

Only the BB has failed but the way I see it is if one part of the contract fails, the whole contract is breached and can be terminated. It should have been up and running mid March.

[SoB]

Hi dw190
I'm no lawyer but I've always found, as a rule of thumb, that if setting up the service costs the supplier money then they insist on a minimum contract to recover their costs. With "see, surf, speak", sky's set-up costs will come with supplying the router for BB and the digibox for tv.
Although the 3 services are separate, sky advertise all 3 as a package for £26 per month. I would assume that if one service is inadequate then there is a breach of contract for the whole package. There are also other ISPs to choose from who also advertise packages so by forcing subscribers to sign a contract they are denying us the right to change to another ISP, if we find their service inadequate.
I reckon that once we sign up they think they've got us for a year and there's nothing we can do if they fail to provide the service advertised.
I decided to cancel my contract after being messed around for 4 hours 30 minutes of phonecalls. I was told that someone would call me back within 3 - 5 days to get my email working! Of course, no-one did. The only reason they could give for the problem was that my surname has an apostrophe, even though my user name amd email address hasn't. Absolutely clueless!
SoB

[dw190]

Originally Posted by SoB

Hi dw190
I'm no lawyer but I've always found, as a rule of thumb, that if setting up the service costs the supplier money then they insist on a minimum contract to recover their costs. With "see, surf, speak", sky's set-up costs will come with supplying the router for BB and the digibox for tv.
Although the 3 services are separate, sky advertise all 3 as a package for £26 per month. I would assume that if one service is inadequate then there is a breach of contract for the whole package. There are also other ISPs to choose from who also advertise packages so by forcing subscribers to sign a contract they are denying us the right to change to another ISP, if we find their service inadequate.
I reckon that once we sign up they think they've got us for a year and there's nothing we can do if they fail to provide the service advertised.
I decided to cancel my contract after being messed around for 4 hours 30 minutes of phonecalls. I was told that someone would call me back within 3 - 5 days to get my email working! Of course, no-one did. The only reason they could give for the problem was that my surname has an apostrophe, even though my user name amd email address hasn't. Absolutely clueless!
SoB

That sounds about right.

I spoke to them last Sunday and it was left that they would check the line which would take 48 hours and call back with the results. (No call back).

When the engineer isnstalled the equipment for the tv he wired the dish into the exsisting cable box to save having to run a coax round the house, It will be interesting to see what Virgin have to say about their cable being tampered with.

[SoB]

Hi dw190
I wouldn't hold your breath that virgin media will do anything about the cable being tampered with by sky. They are only interested in taking your money.
In order to get the sky package I had to change my phoneline from virgin media to bt. I notified vm in january that this would happen in february.
In february I got a bill from vm so tried to call them but you have to hang on for ages and sky have sapped my patience with the broadband problem. Instead I sent them another letter which they also ignored. To cut a long story short they are apparantly taking me to court for 4 months line rental, late payment and non-dd fees totalling about £70 even though I've been with bt since 15 feb. Each time that I sent a letter (4) I enclosed copies of previous letters. The last was sent recorded delivery.
A woman phoned me a few days ago and said she would sort it out but yesterday I received a more threatening letter which mentioned debt collectors.
If I were elderly or infirm I might be terrified of this prospect and pay them. Luckily I am neither and will not be bullied.
My point being that I have found vm to be just as useless as sky. If vm take court action I might be seeking advice on CAG about counter suing the ass off them.
SoB

[dw190]

Not expecting Sky to give in easy. They have been sent a Notice to Terminate with Immediate effect due to Breach of Contract. This was sent Special Delivery (SD) Friday so should be received Tuesday.

A DD payment is due on Tuesday so as a precaution the DD mandate will not be cancelled until the SD confirmation has been obtained off the Royal Mail website.

As soon as statements are rceived, a demand for repayment of all charges less cost of calls will be sent, again by SD, followed by a letter before action. Then the local small claims court. I prefer the local as MCOL requires transfer if a defence is filed. (Its to easy to file an online defence and we don't want to make things easy for them).

I know them connecting to the cable box doesn't amount to much but if we decide to go cable BB it will mean retrieving the internal cable connection thus disabling sky box.

I anticipate a refund by the end of June or having a hearing date in the diary.

[SoB]

Wow dw190
You certainly know your stuff. I just sent their box back with a letter telling them they were in breach of contract and where they can stick it.
Like yourself, I'm waiting to see how much is taken from my bank account via dd and will decide on what action is then appropriate. I instructed them only to take for sky tv.
Over the years I've had my fill of customer dis-service from these big companies and I now feel that enough is enough. Good luck with sky.
SoB

[dw190]

Originally Posted by SoB

Wow dw190
You certainly know your stuff. I just sent their box back with a letter telling them they were in breach of contract and where they can stick it.
Like yourself, I'm waiting to see how much is taken from my bank account via dd and will decide on what action is then appropriate. I instructed them only to take for sky tv.
Over the years I've had my fill of customer dis-service from these big companies and I now feel that enough is enough. Good luck with sky.
SoB

I wont be sending their box back, they can collect it or send me a prepaid packet and my charges to them for taking it to the PO.

[RNSM]

Carefull here. I would read closely your terms and conditions. No email but broadband is not a reason for cancelling. If you still have email issues then you need to ring tech support. The new dedicated password team for email is uk based. Have you filled out your profile on sky.com and submitted it. Have you used the password help link on sky.com and was a security question there?. If not again let tech support know.

Second query, is a green dsl light on the router. Are you in the master socket?. Are you using any extension cables. You should not be testing with a modem but a router, only use the netgear router. The line test can be done straight away (while you are on the phone to tech support) and have you performed a sky test on the router settings page and what error code was received?. Finally if you get through to a different call centre that may have a language barrier - raise this issue and ask to be transferred to the U.K.

[RNSM]

As for using the Virgin box - its not their cable or equipment if you cancelled - its yours.

[Parva]

Originally Posted by RNSM

As for using the Virgin box - its not their cable or equipment if you cancelled - its yours.

Actually, Virgin Media (or NTL / Telewest as was) boxes are always their property unlike Sky boxes. If you cancel Virgin Media then they will collect the box. People on Virgin may think that not actually owning the box isn't a good thing but in actual fact the opposite is true. If your Sky box breaks outside its 12 month warranty period then you have to fork out for repair or replacement or alternatively pay circa £5pm for insurance. As the Virgin Media box belongs to Virgin they have to repair or replace the box at no cost to the consumer. I know which I would prefer!

[RNSM]

1. Where we hire equipment to you it will be our property at all times and we may need to alter or replace it from time to time. For us to do this, we will need reasonable access to your home.
2. You are responsible for making sure that our equipment is safe and used properly at all times. To do this, you agree to do the following:
3. Follow the manufacturer's instructions and any other instructions we have given you;
4. Keep the equipment under your control (for example, you may not sell it, lend it or hire it out to anyone else, put it up as security for a loan or mortgage, or allow it to be seized under any legal process against you). You must not move our equipment from your home without our permission;
5. Insure any of our equipment against any loss, theft or damage for the full replacement value;
6. Not remove, tamper with or cross out any words or labels on our equipment;
7. Take proper care at all times to prevent the loss or theft of our equipment.
8. You agree to tell us immediately about any loss or damage to any part of our equipment. You should do this by phoning, emailing or writing to our Customer Care team. You agree that you are responsible for any loss of or damage to the equipment, regardless of how it happens. We will charge you for any loss of or damage to the equipment.

Yes your right on that point but that then moves onto other issues as the terms and conditions clearly state for virgin that you agree to keep the equipment under your control. Also that you are responsible for loss or damage regardless of how it happened. That could be tricky to prove that the sky engineer did it without your knowledge or consent. Im just playing devils advocate here and also trying to help with the email issue and non connection.

[dw190]

Originally Posted by RNSM

Carefull here. I would read closely your terms and conditions. No email but broadband is not a reason for cancelling. If you still have email issues then you need to ring tech support. The new dedicated password team for email is uk based. Have you filled out your profile on sky.com and submitted it. Have you used the password help link on sky.com and was a security question there?. If not again let tech support know.

Second query, is a green dsl light on the router. Are you in the master socket?. Are you using any extension cables. You should not be testing with a modem but a router, only use the netgear router. The line test can be done straight away (while you are on the phone to tech support) and have you performed a sky test on the router settings page and what error code was received?. Finally if you get through to a different call centre that may have a language barrier - raise this issue and ask to be transferred to the U.K.

All these tests have been completed. There is no DSL light on the provided Netgear router. Tech Support have been made aware of exactly whats happening and the last word from them was that they would have to test the line and it would take 48 hours. I requested a call back from them with their findings to which they agreed. No one called back.

The testing procedure has been completed four times right through to plugging the router into the inside socket of the BT Master Box. Still "No" DSL light. They even sent a new router, just the same.

On all occasions they have said they would test the BT line but have never been back in touch.

[dw190]

Originally Posted by RNSM

As for using the Virgin box - its not their cable or equipment if you cancelled - its yours.

I think your missunderstanding the point here.

Virgin/NTL do not sell any of their equipment or cabling. The Sky installer has removed the seal of the Cable Connection box on the exterior wall, uncoupled the connection and coupled up the coax from the Sky Dish.

I would have thought that any interference with property (cabling) belonging to Virgin/NTL was a NO NO.

[dw190]

I sent an email to Sky to the email address in their online T&Cs. Got an auto response with a link to the Sky Website advising to use the Contact Us on there. Only allows 500 characters and does not keep a receipt like ordinary emailing.

Anyhow the DD has now been cancelled. I'll bet a Case of Champers to a Bottle of Guinness that they make contact now.

Let Battle Commence.

[Parva]

I too would suspect that the installer is going to be in very hot water over this dw190! However, I don't know how much Sky can be held accountable as I would imagine that the installers are their own seperate entity. I'm sure Murdoch will have plenty of get-out clauses!