Penalties for not paying by direct debit

[Mr Rhodes]

This is an outrage.

I have had anew line installed recently and they got the billing address wrong so I never got the bill, but I did receive the red reminder with the wrong address.

I have spent hours after hour (no joking) on the phone trying to get through as they have restricted my service. The last queue was 1hour 26 mins and then they said helpdesk closed and cut me off.

They are charging me a late fee and a processing fee for a bill I do not have and the bill actually is advanced line rental (3 months) when the service is currently restricted. I have now e-mailed them.

My next step is to send a recorded delivery to them asking for reimbursement of my costs (postage), removal of the late fee and penalty charge, reimbursement for the advanced line rental whilst service restricted and to send me correctly addressed bill.

I will give them 7 days to refund anc correct or issue a County Court Summons against them.

The attitude of these corporations!

Any advice from the CAG most welcome.

Thanks

[kennyparkroad]

i would point out that these charges have been placed because of THEIR administration error and it is unfair for you to pay these charges because THEY not YOU made the mistake.

[buzby]

Who is the phone company? If BT, their online service is quite impressive and you can see the data they hold about you. Once registered with your Customer Number you do get a fast track to CS and billing issues - like the wrong address - can be dealt with quickly.

[SupermanX]

I've recived exactly the same letter to my complaint letter. I'm thinking send them a LBA.

[Mr Rhodes]

Hi and thanks for the advice so far.

Yes the line is BT.

I went on-line and set up the account hoping to be able to pay the bill. I went through the process and they sent me an error message.

I used their on-line "ask emma" which was no use.

But I did have fun asking if she was a stupid ****! and I did get an answer, which was more interactive than my genuine question.

I cannot pay my bill for trying!!! I sent them an e-mail via their www and I am still waiting for a reply

To add insult to injury their bill is only for the advance line rental (3 Mths) and they want to charge me £4.50 cheque fee and probably the £7.50 late fee as well.

BT = S****!!!!! IMHO

[elliesnan]

just had my first bill from BT with the £4.50 charge so l will be paying the bill minus £4.50 of course! Hope they get in touch so l can ask them once again how they justify this penalty charge

[Milo19]

Originally Posted by kewbridge

So how do we find out if the Trading Standards Institute have indeed pronounced on this and what they said exactly?

Also, never been entirely sure of what benefit I gain from the Direct Debit Guarantee?

Any thoughts?

Had exactly the same letter, do we know if what Orange are saying about Trading Standards in correct?

[jezza72]

If BT insist on these charges, would it be right to make them earn their money?? For example, how about paying a £80 bill with 80 £1 cheques??

It would be a pain to do, but very satisfying IMO!!

[goodwill]

I think BT are feeding all of us a lot of BS.
From their standard reply

Originally Posted by BT

We have introduced these changes because it costs more to accept non-Direct Debit payments from customers. This is not just because of the cost of taking the payments, but because on average customers are more likely to forget to pay or not pay, and this leaves us with bad debt of around £100 million a year.

"Bad debt" is a term applied to a debt where there is little or no realistic chance of that money being recovered.

BT has an ongoing agreement with Ofcom and the EU Commision to levy a "bad debt surcharge" on it's paying customers to cover that bad dept. The water companies have the same agreement.
also
If you pay monthly you are charged a £1.50 "processing" fee for each bill.
If you pay quarterly you are charged a £4.50 "processing" fee for each bill.

That shows the ammount charged has no relationship to BT's cost of "processing" the bill.
It's a rolling punitive charge.

[Milo19]

so have the trading standards said that this fee is legal?????

[Human Writes]

Yes they have, I asked Orange about it and they referred me to a statement the Trading Standards Institute made to Watchdog when they ran their story about these charges:

BBC - Consumer - TV and radio - Penalty charges

The Trading Standards Institute offered a statement regarding this story. It said:

"Trading Standards officers have received a number of complaints regarding the extra charge levied by some companies on consumers who pay other than by direct debit.

"These charges are lawful. The Price Indications (Method of Payment) Regulations 1991 allow differential pricing provided the indication of the higher price is expressed clearly, unambiguously, and that it's easily identifiable by a consumer as applying to the goods, services, accommodation or facilities concerned, and given prominently and legibly.

[buzby]

However, it is worth noting that the Irish Government has enacted legislation PREVENTING firms from charging differing amounts depending on the method of payment used. Which makes you think, if the Irish can see that it is unfair and have actually done something about it, our TS should be campaigning for a similar outcome, not simply saying 'it's legal', and leaving it at that.

[jaxads]

This may be covered elsewhere, but another company charging £3-£4 per month if you don't pay by DD is SKY TV.

[Milo19]

So we can't argue this point then. They are charging us for paying a bill on time, and its LEGAL!?

[kennyparkroad]

it appears there is nothing we can do.

[buzby]

Why not turn it on its head? It is not ILLEGAL...yet (but should be) - we just need to campaign for it.

[Mark_Blackpool]

Originally Posted by Human Writes

Yes they have, I asked Orange about it and they referred me to a statement the Trading Standards Institute made to Watchdog when they ran their story about these charges:

BBC - Consumer - TV and radio - Penalty charges

The Trading Standards Institute offered a statement regarding this story. It said:

"Trading Standards officers have received a number of complaints regarding the extra charge levied by some companies on consumers who pay other than by direct debit.

"These charges are lawful. The Price Indications (Method of Payment) Regulations 1991 allow differential pricing provided the indication of the higher price is expressed clearly, unambiguously, and that it's easily identifiable by a consumer as applying to the goods, services, accommodation or facilities concerned, and given prominently and legibly.

With respect to that last paragraph: I once had an Orange mobile on a contract for years, and thanks to a spate of cock-ups with direct debit I embarked upon cancelling all direct debits and paying by BACS instead which I still do to this day.

They then charged a £4 'fee' and I looked closely at their website - both the service plan pages for the plan I had - and the 'general terms and conditions' and could find no mention whatsoever of any additional charge.

The pages clearly state the monthly cost of the plan but do not state anywhere that the price is only for about 60% of their customers who pay by direct debit (source: BACS website, 2/3 of people pay this way).

Therefore, I'd say this approach - quoting a price that only 60% of people will actually pay - fails the test in that last paragraph, and this is something many companies still do.

[Human Writes]

Without meaning to shoot you down in flames I had a similar thought and researched it:

Straight from Orange's contract terms.

Orange's Pay Monthly Terms and Conditions

1 Definitions

Price Guide: a list of our current Charges which is updated from time to time and is available from us upon request.

Charges: all charges for Services, as published in our periodically updated Price Guide. These include any reasonable administration charges.

6.3 payment methods

6.3.1 we reserve the right to charge an administration fee each month for payments not made by direct debit


Pay Monthly Price Guide

The charges also seem to be clearly referred to on several pages of Orange's Price Guide and they are also clear on my bill, I doubt it is arguable on the basis that the charges are not clear.