Wanadoo/Orange broadband - unauthorised charges

[gemmabe]

Mentioned this in my thread on the Halifax BAG, but have decided not to take it lying down. Here is a copy of an email I have just sent Orange. I would appreciate any comments, especially from others who have experienced similar problems, i.e. Orange/Wanadoo letting monthly fees add up and charging you in one go, etc.

Dear Sir/Madam
I am writing to you regarding an old account I held with you.
Today, my bank has informed me that you have, unauthorised, debited the sum of 53.98GBP from my bank account via charging a cancelled debit card. Please could you explain what this payment is for? You also charged me once previously for an amount of approximately 150GBP after failing to charge me for several months. I am apalled. I cancelled this service in June 2006, as a) my family changed to NTL, and b) in July 2006 I moved out of the address altogether! If you check your records, you will see that I have not accessed your service since June 2006, so I am at a loss as to why you have decided to charge my card (without my permission).
I demand that you destroy my card details immediately and issue me with a full refund. I have also incurred bank charges - as a result of your actions, my account has gone into an unauthorised overdraft. These charges should fall to you.
I await your urgent action.
Yours faithfully
Miss Gemma Beglan

[buzby]

Was this for Broadband...? As I understand it Orange took over the service of Wannadoo, so there may have been a glitch, however as you said your Debit Card was 'cancelled' could you expand on this? When the account a debit card is attached to is closed, or if the debit card bumber or validity dates change, funds cannot be collected. There has been a number of debates what some bank account holders discover a replacement card still can be debited from some banks and not others.

In addition to your letter to Orange, what did your bank say? As if they allowed a debit from a cancelled card, that's their problem!

[surreylad]

I am having something of the same with AOL. Over three years ago, had a dial up from them which I canceled. Recently They started taking money from my account again. Phoned the bank and after three attempts they have told me that it is very hard to actually stop a payment on a debit card as it will just keep rolling over until THEY stop it.

It is nothing more than Theft in my books!

[buzby]

This is very true - however a recurring mandate is a dangerous think and really should not be used to make payments because of the possibility of unauthorised witrhdrawals. However, if your account (bank) and card were the same as when you entered into the arrangement, then you are really on your own to fight and get your money back. However, if your debit card had expired or bank account number changed or closed, no debit should be possible (as your details would have changed) and it is this process we're trying to pin down!

[gemmabe]

Buzby, I lost my card last year, August time and requested a replacement. Halifax, my bank, said that as Orange held my old details they could call in a payment whenever they wanted, regardless of the fact they do not have my new card details! I phoned Halifax back early this morning, and was told the money was taken out by the Halifax fraud dept.! Am awaiting response from Orange before I contact the bank again.

[buzby]

Excellent! Now, can you recall if the new card number was anything like your OLD card number? At issue here is it doesn't matter that the vendor had the old details, if they attempted to take a debit it would have been rejected as an invalid card number. So, the only people who could give the new number to the vendor was your bank or yourself, and I'm sure you were NOT asked by them if you wished your new card details to be disclosed to a third party. (Making them liable for the unwanted debit).

As to the involvement of the HBOS Fraud Departent, how very apt - I suggest you pursue them also and hold them jointly liable for the unwanted debit. If you can point to any relevant terms or condition that they made you aware of in disclosing these srevised ensitive details to a third party, ask them to provide it.

[gemmabe]

Thank you very much Buzby. They did this before, for about 150 quid, then Wanadoo, they let the charges mount up, then charged me all in one go without telling me first! My old card was the same number bar 2 digits I believe.

[buzby]

Fine - there's no way they could have known the replacement number without the bank disclosing it to them. Pursue the bank for a full explanation, and you might even be moved to report the matter to the Finascial Ombudsman Service, just to show you're serious. On my Switch card, when it changed any recurring mandates were inoperative and each firm had to request the new card number, so HBOS appear to be playing fast and loose with your money.

[gemmabe]

OK, Halifax fraud say, the transaction is most likely a pending transaction from up to 6 months ago, as it was pending it has been allowed to come out of my account as "cash" and as I used to have an account with Orange they cannot class this as fraud! I kicked up a stink and now have the number to fill out a "fraudulent dispute form".

[buzby]

Great! Keep us posted!

[gemmabe]

OK, number given for the form was an incorrect internal number, lol, but eventually got through to a very helpful chap at Halifax. The transaction was setup by Orange as a rolling transaction, so even when my card details changed, they could still charge my card. I was told the reason this is, is so that regular monthly payments continue to be paid so that the customer's services are not disconnected, i.e. sky tv. Halifax allow this to happen until they get complaints from the customer. I am told this is all too common with such companies. State of play now, is that we have to give Orange 30 days to refund me of their own accord in response to my letter of complaint to them. If they don't, Halifax themselves will issue a refund, and chase Orange for the money.

[gemmabe]

Oh, and if Orange disagree, they will have to prove they had permission to debit my card, i.e. my new card details and new address, so they don't have a leg to stand on.

[buzby]

That's good to know - however I still think there is mileage in putting the blame squarely on the bank for disclosing the new details. The 'inconvenience' answer sounds like a cop-out, as a phone call or letter would elucidate the new information IF the customer wanted to give it.