Letter to NTL

[meagain]

I got bored, so decided that as well as arbitrarily deducting almost £30 from my bill and saying "the account is now satisfied", I'd give them some food for thought:

To whom it may concern,

For what is now the third time (following on from occasions in April and August of last year), I have found need to rectify your errors in billing for services provided to me. Once more you have seen fit to include such postings to the account under the headings “Late payment fee” and “Non-Direct Debit handling charge”.

There is no provision anywhere in the terms of the contract between us for the levy of a “late payment fee”. Furthermore, were there such a provision, it would not be binding upon me, trading as a consumer, under Regulation 8(1), Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI No. 2083):

(1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.

On the subject of the “non-Direct Debit handling charge”, may I take this opportunity to remind you that as consideration for the purposes of the contract between us, payment of the bill is a service that I provide to you, and as such the levy of fees for that service is my prerogative exclusively.

Therefore, I have taken the liberty of recalculating the bill, to exclude such erroneous and unlawful entries. For this additional service, I have deducted from the bill the sum of £4.50, for my time in calculating the bill and drafting this letter. Take note of the following amendment to the terms and conditions that govern the contract.

Effective immediately the next bill is issued, for each bill that is received that is found to be incorrect, the recalculation of the bill shall be carried out by the customer, and the expense of this charged to NTL Group at a rate of £9 per hour, in units no smaller than half an hour. This amount is to be paid by offset against any amounts owing to NTL Group by the customer.

The change is issued pursuant to the current terms, which permit either party to make amendments to the terms as necessary (this provision must allow both parties to do so, or the result is not a contract), and the provision which allows either party (again, or it is not a contract) to make a reasonable charge for services rendered. Your continued provision of service after the issue of the next bill shall serve to demonstrate your assent to this addition.

The cheque enclosed is issued to you on the strict condition that it satisfies the entirety of the current bill, and your acceptance of the payment will demonstrate your acceptance of this condition. Any other use of the cheque is hereby strictly prohibited.

The calculation of the bill is attached.

Sincerely,
M. E. Again

Will be going in the post at approximately 4pm today. You have until then to let me know if I'm doing something monumentally stupid.

[buzby]

I think you're making too many demands, it started well but your price list of fees wouldn;t be tolerated and they could just as easy say that the answer is no and discontinue service. In this case they have the discretion to choose to deal with you.

However, as their late payment and non-DDM fees, along with the Reconnection charges, all these can be challenged and the company buckles each and every time because it knows no court will uphold them. So, if you find their service useful (I do) and their BB better than this dreadful ADSL offering, give them some credit. You'll pay for the services you receive, and challenge each and every unfair charge they may attempt to levy on your account. If you put them on notice, their response may well be better than the loss of all services.

[meagain]

Originally Posted by buzby

I think you're making too many demands, it started well but your price list of fees wouldn;t be tolerated and they could just as easy say that the answer is no and discontinue service. In this case they have the discretion to choose to deal with you.

Oh well. I was counting on them being dumb enough to reply saying "you're not entitled to do that" and carry on as normal.

Since the letter hasn't been printed and sent, I can always change it before it goes.

[buzby]

They're not that dumb! I've spoken at length with them (their Manchester legal/correspondence section). This is staffed with Graduates and they've been given wide powers to negotiate on behalf of the company. If they see you as being fair and have suffered, they have the power to resolve the issue and you rarely lose out. If on the other hand they think you're just trying it on, they can say they'll not negotiate and you're no further forward. I've found that providing I don;t have to interface with their indian CS, they provide a good service and it is worthwhile being a customer. So credit whilst it's due, if they weren't there and I only had Sky, I'd really not be happy!

[bevo]

I have just read your threat re NTL. I keep getting £10 late payment charges and also the £4.00 because it is not paid by DD. I am going to ask for my money back as the £4.00 is of no consequence its not as if they have to find a paypal point its the customer plus why are their bills always payable upon receipt?

[buzby]

I'm not sure what point you're making - they're bills don't require payment 'on receipt' I have at least 12-14 clear days in which to get my bank transfer credited to the account. I'm not clear if you care about the £4 non-DD, but for those of us who pay electronically (including PP) the fee is inappropriate. As for the late payment charge, I don't pay it as I pay them monthly, and taking all their services I'm a useful an profitible customer to have, so there's a fair bit of discretion, however if you often pay late, then it will be difficult to get them to remove the charge. If they deliver the service, they should get paid for it.

[bevo]

Thanks for your reply but I actually pay monthly by pay pal and my bills say payment upon receipt. I think your reply is a bit rude.

[diabolical]

My bills say "The payment of this bill is due immediately", i.e. on receipt.

[bevo]

If the time to pay is up to 14 days then I am being charged £10 for no reason. Thanks for replying.

[buzby]

Originally Posted by bevo

Thanks for your reply but I actually pay monthly by pay pal and my bills say payment upon receipt. I think your reply is a bit rude.

NTL do not accept payments by PayPal, so could this be your problem? As for my response being 'rude', I'm at a loss to understand why you would think so. If I cannot understand the point you are trying to make, I'm asking for clarification. You've still not done so. What do you mean when you say "is of no consequence"?

[bevo]

I am on ebay think mode I meant pay point.

[buzby]

They look on PayPoint as their retail collections service and to be fair it DOES cost them money to accept payments in this way, I think the retailer can hold back 1.75% of the amount paid, so NTL don't really receive the full amount shown on the invoice, hence the addition of their fee. However those of us who pay via BACS using funds transfer actually pay therm the full amount required, so the imposition of a non-DDM fee is just an additional profit source.

[bevo]

Thanks for your message.

[coldcarpet]

i pay by debit card it cost 75p (fact )for streamline to process the card payment so thats a lot less than 4.00 and the payment is gauranteed not llike direct debit where it can be recalled by the bank anything up to 72 hours after the payment as been asked for

[buzby]

Originally Posted by coldcarpet

i pay by debit card it cost 75p (fact )for streamline to process the card payment so thats a lot less than 4.00 and the payment is gauranteed not llike direct debit where it can be recalled by the bank anything up to 72 hours after the payment as been asked for

Not that I'm doubding your figures, but the 75p wasn't a flat fee for the transaction? All the Streamline activity I've seen is based on the % rate negotiated by the merchant, it if your bill is more, the fee increases.

[meagain]

All of this is somewhat irrelevant, surely, since NTL are responsible for their own banking costs. Liquidated damages doesn't apply, since they are not put to unreasonable cost, and the choice of payment method is not a breach of contract.

[MARTIN3030]

No matter what you say in your letter,or how you word it.........they will maintain they are right.
If you have dialogue with them they will offer some refunds back to your account but on condition that you sign up for d/d.
The only way you will get sorted unless its a small amount is by taking them to court.