Orange Default - Satisfied but not removed

[GSMGuy]

Hi all..

I have been a n Orange customer since they tarted in 1994, and have had the same mobile No since then. Always been a "Band 5" spend customer, and my own handset bill is approx £1200 a year... The main account is paid up to date, and always has been, Orange have also always been notified of any changes of address on this (main) account

Anyways, over the past 5 or 6 years, I have, at various times had additional accounts for (ex)wife & Girlfriend etc...

Now on my credit file, for some reason, I have 2 - yes 2 defaults with Orange 1st for £108 on 11/05/01
2nd for £161 on 10/04/05 showing as satisfied

Now I was unaware of the 1st one, and only became aware of the 2nd a year or so ago, when I got a letter requesting payment, which I paid immediately.

I should say, that I moved addresses at end of 2001, again beginning of 2002 and to my current address in June 2002..

Interestingly, on my credit file, the address on the 1st default, of which I was unaware, is the correct one for where I was living up until Dec of that year, but I never received a default notice for it. Had I have done so, I would have paid it...

The 2nd default, dated Apr last year shows my PREVIOUS address, at which I have not lived since 31st MAy 2002.... So OBVIOUSLY I would have never received a default notice for that either...

So, I wrote to Orange with a CCA request, and got a letter back.... some of the contents being basically as follows

"I wish to conform the default for £161 is correct and no amendments will be made to your file....

In response to your request, I can conform that Orange do not retain copies of your original signed agreement. A mobile phone agreement is not a regulated credit agreement under the CCA and as such we are not required to retain a signed copy of your agreement

As your mobile phone agreement is not classed as a regulated credit agreement under the CCA 1974 we are also not obliged to send a formal default notice. In place of this we will send you a monthly bill and reminder letters which include information relating to the effect non payment will have on your ability to odtain credit......"


Now - I may be wrong, but if they have sent the letters and bills to the wrong address - surely they should remove the default?? They will have been notified of my change of address, as I have never had a prob receiving bills for my main number, and they all have the same paymeny and security details, and If I call about my primary number, the operator can always see my other accounts...

Secondly, and this is the funny bit... Since about July of last year, I have had 2 new handsets connected on pay monthly contracts in my name with no problems whatsoever..... So whilst they are happy to prevent me obtaining credit elsewhere, they are happy to give it to me themselves.....

What would be my best approach to this? Should I request that they stop processing my data on the closed accounts, or should I attack via the CRA route????

Thanks in advance..

Mike

[buzby]

Well, it is a payment default (small 'd') and not a proper Default, like a CCJ or CCA transgression, these also slide off your credit file after 60 months, so I wouldn;t lose much sleep over them.

If you want to pursue it, you could remind Orange that if they place a default of your credit file, it must be fair and accurate. Having been a customer since 1994 you hope that they valued your custom over the past 12 years, but you are not happy at the misinformation, especially as you were never made aware of the first (despte them knowing of your address) and as for the second, this was sent to an incoirrect address, which would have been self-evident at looking at your file.

Should the company NOT agree to rectifying these defaults on your credit file, you will have no hesitation in taking your business elsewhere.

Interestingly, from memory the original Orange contracts - when Orange had yet to launch its service and was known as Microtel, no request was made to disclose your data to CRA's, so you may have a valid 'gotcha' as they cannot prove you DID provide your permission - never mind the CCA, but the Data Protection Act!

[GSMGuy]

Oh it gets worse lol... Just spoke to the author of the letter, told the 1st op to answer that I was recording the call - which I was..

Anyway, I explained, and she agreed that the default had been paid, she looked and could see no change of addy info, but when she looked at 5 other accounts of mine she agreed that they had all had the addy's changed on the same day - So I told her it was obviously and oversight, and could she therefore remove the default.. She got a bit stroppy and said, well you still owe the money, at which point I reminded her that it was settled andshe had agreed the same... She replied "no I never" at which point I reminded her that the call was being recorded.... She said - Well you never told me, so I am ending the call... And put the phone down!!

Interstingly, when I asked for the name of the Data Controller - she inssted it was OFCOM.....

Mike

[buzby]

These things are far better dealt with in WRITING, always. Suggest you do this, as you can always use their responses as part of any case.

[GSMGuy]

You read my mind just done a nice long letter voicing my "lack of happiness" gone in post RD about 10 mins ago....

I liked this bit...

"I would also like to know exactly where in the terms and conditions I agreed to, does it permit you to supply information about my account to a third party or credit reference agency, once the account has been terminated. I do not recall the phrase “ad infinitum” being part of those terms, and if so I request that you stop processing my data in relation to closed accounts and furthermore would suggest any supply of such data to a third party contravenes the Data Protection Act."

Mike

[buzby]

That's the ticket. Remember to update the thread when you do hear from then. I'm especially interested in they cannot substantiate your data privacy waiver....!

[GSMGuy]

Hmm, still had no response to my letter, which was delivered to them on 09th - So what steps should I take now? Have already told them they have a duty to ensure any info they supply to the CRA's is accurate and fair, and that as they didn't update my account addresses, this is not the case - How can I force them to act?

Mike

[buzby]

I still think you need to give them time to process the request. 28 WORKING days is not uncommon. Certainly if they ignore you, there's little power you REALLY have ad your disposal, but unlike other companies, they don't have a reputation for this!

[GSMGuy]

Well will give them a few more days and send them a reminder...

Mike

[GSMGuy]

Right - It's now been a month since they received my letter, according to the royal mail POD... So any suggestions, as I have had no reply whatsoever to my letter, or the fact that I said in in that I wished this to be escalated to a formal complaint???

Mike

[buzby]

With no response to a written complaint, the only optios left are to take it up with a regulator (which for telecoms is usually a waste of time), or to force the issue by raising a Small Claims action to force them to complete a course of action you requre.

[GSMGuy]

Cheers Buzby - Thats what I thought - wonder if it's worth doing an LBA type letter, along the lines of "I am disappointed by your lack of responce to my previous letters of complaint, and your failure to remedy the incorrect information on my credit file"

Blah Blah... But what action do I approach the court for? Is it an N1 job along the lines of "Defendant has supplied historically incorrect data to the CRA's which is having an adverse effect on my ability to obtain further credit - Even though the defendant has been happy to extend credit to me on several occasions since registering the defaults, and continues to extend new credit on a regular basis......" Should I put that I notified a change of address and it appears that it was not applied to all of my accounts, and therefore I was unaware of the defaults until recenty??

Any input appreciated....


Mike

[buzby]

Firstly, the defentant never extended you credit - they were just agreeable to having you as a customer. A notified 'default' on your CRA record has no legal standing, so it is down to negotiation.

If the data was supplied in bad faith to CRAs, and I would contend it is - then you ask Orange to fix the problem and are ultimately unwilling to resolve the issue, you call on the courts to force Orange to remove the blight on your credit record, and pay your resonable expenses for so doing. (Say, £50 for your time and effort in resolving the matter and your expense in checking your credit records). It is also worth pointing out that if you no longer are a customer of theirs, your contract is concluded and they should cease processing any of your personal data.

[GSMGuy]

Hi Buzby, thanks for the response.. The defaults relate to 2 accounts that are nowclosed - BUT I am still a customer with a further 4 accounts - Is the processing of my data specific to the account, if you know what I mean? Any suggestions as to how an N1 would be worded in this case???

Cheers

Mike

[buzby]

I'm not an expert on the N1 (I'm used to Scottish actions), however multiple accounts complicate things as they are kinda deemed to be read as one - so agreement to process data would start with the 1st contract, and end with the expiration of the last....