Mobile Operators - penalty charges

[sgx.saint]

Hello.

Can you reclaim unlawful charges from Mobile Phone Operators within the UK?

i.e. £500 disconnection fees etc.

Thanks

[JonCris]

They can only claim such penalty charges as to meet their liquidated losses & £500 seems a bit steep. So unless I'm wrong about the cost of disconnection............ ....yes you can reclaim.

You can certainly write & ask them to justify their charge & it's no good them just claiming it's in the T's&C's The banks have been claiming that for ages & look where it got them

[sgx.saint]

That's exactly what I thought.

I think I will send them a Subject Access Request and confirm what charges I have incurred and then perhaps take it further.

Thank you for your input.

[JonCris]

1st write asking them to justify their charges then after a delay of about 10 days send your Subject Access Request. You never know what contradictary infomation you might receive which may help demolish their arguments

[blacksheep1979]

When you say disconection charges do you mean along the lines of you wanted to leave your contract yet had x months left to run? If so they normal charge you months left x monthly line rental and they are allowed to do this

[JonCris]

No they are not.

They are not allowed to impose a penalty no matter how long the contract has to run.

Like the banks they are only allowed to recover their liquidated losses which they must prove.

Anything else is unlawful

[StudentInDebt]

If the contract included a free phone would that constitute something that the phone company could include in an early termination charge?

[JonCris]

Not unless they include the right of return in their contract T's & C's otherwise a free phone is just that a 'free phone'

[sgx.saint]

Well I think I shall send Orange an Subject Access Request/Data Protection Act request. See what exactly I have been charged and then go about claiming it back.

Has anyone on here tried reclaiming charges from any of the mobile operators?

If so, any advice, did you succeed?

[RedDeath]

This would be interesting to follow. I am thinking of claiming back penalty charges. Any kind souls going/have been through the process?

[buzby]

Sorry, I've never read so much speculation in a CAG thread, and none of it based on fact. There are no 'penalty' charges when you attempt to bail out of a contract without keeping your site of the bargain. If you don;t want to be liable, you buy the phone outright as a Pay As You Go customer, the cost of the phone is the finaly price and you cannot be made to pay any more (unless there is a mandatory initial top-up advised).

Your contract length determines the p[rice you pay phone the phone, a free phone is not a 'free' phone, the price of the phone is dynamic and depends on the contract duration and the airtime package agreed to. Once supplied, its value is zero, hence there is no opportunity to return for a refund - but then if it was supplied on consideration of completing the contract, then the subscriber had better keep to the agreeemnt or suffer the consequenses of not completing the arrangement.

It is not in the least unusual that those wanting to terminate early are asked to pay their monthly rate X months left, It's a bad way to go as you miss out on all the inclusive minutes and deals that would be ongoing until the contract completion, but for some they just can't afford it - so have to make do with their credit file trashed as a result.

Paying off your contract is NOT a penalty, it is the customer keeping their side of the agreement. They may be subsequent penalties for non payment if the contract ends abruptly, but the phone has to be paid for one way or another. Why do people accespt there's no such thing as a free lunch, but think phones are somehow different?

As to the OP - I'm assuming the £500 you refer to is because you took out a contract and terminated early? The fee will probably cover the months left to run, so you probably cancelled very early on in the deal. As the phone probably cost around £450, I don't see this as being unreasonable. Would you like to expand on why you see it as a 'penalty'?

[JonCris]

buzby Sorry but your wrong if the phone is supplied 'free of charge' then it is a free phone.

If there are conditions attached to the supply of the phone then it ain't free. If there is a requirement for the phone to be returned upon cancellation of the contract then they can only ask for it's return in good condition fair wear & tear accepted. Any telecoms contract can be cancelled at any time without penalty otherwise it's a breach of the UCCT Ask the OFT

[stan5131]

Buzby. I have read many of your posts and your tone almost suggests a "what did you expect" reply!

Im not in any way attracting an argument but am often puzzled as to which side of the fence you sit. I have sometimes read posts where the op hasnt a 'legal leg to stand on' but have kept the spirit of my reply in keeping with the nature of this site.

Just wondering if you could elaborate on your expertise and inner thoughts? JonCris makes no secret of the fact that he is a lawyer and therefore I have always trusted his knowledge of the law.

[buzby]

Originally Posted by JonCris

buzby Sorry but your wrong if the phone is supplied 'free of charge' then it is a free phone.

If there are conditions attached to the supply of the phone then it ain't free. If there is a requirement for the phone to be returned upon cancellation of the contract then they can only ask for it's return in good condition fair wear & tear accepted. Any telecoms contract can be cancelled at any time without penalty otherwise it's a breach of the UCCT Ask the OFT

I really think you should get out more! The only thing correct in your posting was the date, and I really think you should stop giving CAG members false hope when there clearly is none.

A 'free' phone only means that the cost of it is factored in a different way, even the Advertising Standards Authority support dealers promoting products in this way. The phone WILL be free to the consumer, but ONLY if they fully comply with the contract terms under which the 'free' phone was supplied. Correct me if I'm wrong, but following your logic, if the recipient of a free phone lost it, they could simply ask for a replacement (again at no cost) and carry on with their contract? Not so, the cost of this phone to replace would be £500 or so, based on the true retail price and the fact there is no contract discount available the full price is payable.

As for your suggestion that a network would require a phone returned, what nonsense! A returned phone unless it it boxed and still new, has NO residual value and will have no bearing on the contract the consumer signed.

As for your assertion saying that any telecoms contract can be cancelled at any time without penalty, shows you do not even read the topics in this forum where this has happened. Please, until you have first-hand experience of what you are talking about, take out your own mobile contract and walk away, then see what happens to your credit record, and your 'understanding' of how the industry works.

[buzby]

Originally Posted by stansfield5131

Buzby. I have read many of your posts and your tone almost suggests a "what did you expect" reply!

Im not in any way attracting an argument but am often puzzled as to which side of the fence you sit. I have sometimes read posts where the op hasnt a 'legal leg to stand on' but have kept the spirit of my reply in keeping with the nature of this site. JonCris makes no secret of the fact that he is a lawyer and therefore I have always trusted his knowledge of the law.

Those requesting help on this site pose their questions and require a fair and honest response. There is no latitude to provide wooly supportive noises if, when there is absolutely no hope of achieving a resolution beneficial to the consumer, there is no prospect of finding a get-out. I think it grossly unfair to keep up unrealistic false hopes, is this really your suggestion? The spirit of this site is alive and well, but nobody is going to mislead by saying 'x' will never happen when there is a contract that the consumer has agreed to, and for circumstances beyonf their control they want to get out of it, they then claim shock and horror when someone points out that it might have been better if they hadn't signed the agreement in the first place. Networks are not swayed by sob-stories, court action and the trashing of credit records prove this.

However, there are occasions when the networks get it wrong and treat the consumer with contempt and it is those cases when it is possible to restore the balance and play them at their own game, but winning for the small guy. There are plenty of examples here where those that CAN justly claim their network has failed them, and we can advise accordingly.

If JonCris wishes to disclose his profession, that is his business, however having read his earlier response that a 'free phone' must be free or it is an 'unfair contract', exhibits a naivete that does not reflect how the mobile industry has worked for the last 22 years, and you can be sure that consumer contractural commitments are legally binding.

[JonCris]

I shall respond to your objectionable post

To begin with I do have 1st hand experience of what I'm talking about 2nd as I have said if the phone comes with conditions (any conditions) then it ain't free no matter what is claimed by you or the supplier

As for the ASA forget it they are no authority in the matter of law whatsoever.

As for having to replace a 'lost' free phone with another free phone. No that's your logic not mine

Back to original OP & my original advice.
Their fee (which they must justify if asked) appears nothing more than a penalty charge & they ARE unlawful............unles s they can prove them to be their true liquidated losses.

Also charging for the full or further term of the contract after cancellation is seen as unlawful..hence the current successes in reclaiming redemption fees