Pipex- direct debit failure since 06/06

[alisonf]

I initially asked for advise for me and my partner in the General section now that I have found this new section I thought I would pop it in here. Lets see if I can get all the emails in the right order and get up to speed.


18th December US

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to make an official complaint about a billing error on my account (number: XXXXXX, username: XXXX).

I have just checked my bank account details and I have noticed that your company has just tried to take £276.99 from my bank account. This came as a huge shock to me as my bill should only be about £27.00. Furthermore, due to the timing of this withdrawal (one week before Christmas) there were insufficient funds in my account to make this payment, which means the payment was not honoured and I have now incurred a £34 penalty charge from my bank.

I have just spoken to a member of your call centre team who has shed some light on the situation and has confirmed that this is your error and not mine. It would appear that you installed a new billing system in June that did not capture every single one of your existing account holders. I was one of the account holders that seemingly slipped through the net. Due to this, I have not been billed for my account since June. Now your system seems to have caught up and it suddenly tried to take the full outstanding balance from my account, without warning, one week before Christmas, when, as you can imagine, I can least afford it.

At no time has anyone called me to discuss this matter, nor have I received an email or a letter to let me know what was going on or to forewarn me of this very large impending payment. Furthermore, I changed my account package to the new Pipex Max 8mb deal in November, I spoke to your call centre on 5 occasions both before and during the changeover period, but even then not one member of staff informed me that there was a billing problem.

I do not feel that you have acted professionally regarding this matter and I am bitterly disappointed to have been treated in such a way by a company that, as an IT professional, I have always respected and have wholeheartedly recommended to numerous people. If you had simply notified me of this error I could have ensured that funds where available to cover the payment, but you did not. If you have notified me of the issues when I spoke to your staff members on five separate occasions in November we could have resolved the matter then and there without the need for a financial shock so close to Christmas, however, you did not.

You have explained to me on the phone that this was your mistake, but it has ended up causing me both great stress and financial loss when I least need it. I fail to see how this can possibly be seen as fair treatment of a loyal customer such as myself.

I am now asking you to resolve this matter in a fair and mutually acceptable way, I would expect you to cover the £34 bank charge that your unexpected payment created and, furthermore, I do not think it is unreasonable to ask you for some form of compensation for the stress and inconvenience that you have caused. I would also ask you to work out a scheme to allow me to pay the outstanding balance in an way that is easy for me to manage financially.

Once again, this is YOUR mistake, not mine, and I do not see why I should have to suffer as a result of a technical problem that is completely out of my control, I am bitterly disappointed by the way that I have been treated by Pipex regarding this matter and I can only hope that this email will lead to an amicable resolution.

Best Regards,



20th December THEM

On 20/12/06, Customer Care <customercare@pipex.net > wrote:
Dear

Thank you for your email

The payment we are currently trying to debit is the amount owing since signing up to Pipex, unfortunately this amount is due, PIPEX have been experiencing some
Technical problems with our direct debit systems.

You have the option to split the payments over 2 months but this is required to be paid as soon as possible.

I have added 2 free months of broadband to your account as a gesture of good will for the inconveniences for you.

Yours sincerely


Sheena Shah
Customer Relations
Pipex Internet Ltd

Tel: 0845 077 2455
Fax: 0870 24 34 440
Pipex - Up to 8Mb broadband from £6.50, cheap home phone call packages




20th December US

Hi Sheena,

Thank you for your email, but unfortunately I do not think this is good enough - AT ALL.

I appreciate that the amount you have tried to recover is the amount outstanding on my account, however, we should not be in the situation where you would need to recover 6 months outstanding payments in one go, especially just before Christmas. As I have already stated, this has already personally cost me £34 in bank charges.

As you clearly state in your email, this situation has occurred due to technical problems with your direct debit system, I have only ever shown willingness to pay and therefore should not be penalised in any way for YOUR error. By signing the Direct Debit mandate I entered into an agreement with you. You chose not to honour that agreement and as such have caused me financial strain and undue stress. All of which is highly inappropriate for a service provider that apparently prides itself on it's customer relations.

If I had broken our Direct Debit agreement, for example, by choosing not to pay your bill for six months, I would have been penalised by you as per the terms of our agreement, either by loss of service or by way of financial penalty. I do not see why I should also be penalised, as I have been, for your company not honouring the same agreement.

Once again here are the issues:

1. I simply cannot state this strongly enough, I have been penalised due to YOUR error.
2. I have always shown willingness to pay and there has always been sufficient funds available in my bank account to cover the agreed Direct Debit monthly payment, if you had taken it as agreed.
3. At no time did you give me any warning of this large, impending payment.
4. I have received no communication from you to alert me to the problem.
5. I contacted your company on 5 occasions in November and changed my package details, giving you a clear opportunity to identify any problem there might have been with my billing, however you did not inform me of the problem during any of these conversations.
6. You have tried to withdraw a large sum of money from my bank account a week before Christmas when, understandably, I have absolutely the least amount of funds available to me in my bank account.
7. This failed attempt to recover these funds has resulted in a £34 bank charge which, as I was not forewarned, I am holding you completely responsible for.

If you do not resolve this situation in a responsible and sympathetic manner, in accordance with your stated Code of Practice, I will have to take further action. I would also like to quote directly from your Code of Practice:

"Pipex believes passionately in delivering the best possible customer experience."

"Our Customer Care Team always investigates and concludes issues efficiently with a focus on customer care."

" Should you remain dissatisfied with Pipex's response, you may request in writing to the Customer Care address given above that the matter be escalated to a more senior level within the organisation for a review."

I can assure you that I have not had the "best customer experience" nor have you tried to conclude this matter "with a focus on customer care". Furthermore I most certainly do remain dissatisfied with your response and I do request that this matter is escalated to a more senior level. If you require me to request this in writing please let me know by return of email.

If this matter is not resolved satisfactorily, I shall escalate the issue to OFCOM and the CISAS. Once again, this is YOUR mistake, regardless of the outstanding balance there is absolutely no way that I am prepared to accept the fact that I have been penalised for your error. You created this problem, so please resolve it in a satisfactory manner befitting a company such as yours.

Regards,




20th December THEM
Dear

Thank you for your email


I will quite happily refund the bank charges once I have seen proof of the charges form the bank as i have to have these documents to present to my finance team to have a refund issued.

The outstanding is required to be made as this includes call charges and broadband you have been provided with and used.

There are arrangements you can make with our finance team to spread the payment over 2-3 months.

Please do accept my apologies for the inconveniences caused, I am unable to make any further offers.

Yours sincerely

Sheena Shah
Customer Relations
Pipex Internet Ltd




20th December US



Hi Sheena,

Thank you for your prompt response.

I am very disappointed that I have to repeat myself, but, once again, I must say that I remain dissatisfied with your response and I request that this matter is escalated to a more senior level. If you require me to request this in writing please let me know by return of email.

My biggest issue here is that this is YOUR mistake and I have so far been treated like it is mine. This kind of attitude is simply unacceptable, you didn't even offer me an apology in your first email!

I have attached proof of the £34 bank charge as requested, I also note after checking my statement that there is an additional £25 charge for initially paying the item, so that's £59 of bank charges all together, so just as well you asked me for proof or I would have missed it.

Regards,




20th December-US on advise from Mitzi

Hi Sheena,

Further to my last email I thought it prudent to attach details of the Direct Debit Guarantee, as regulated by the FSA, that protects me as a consumer. I would like to draw your attention to the first and second paragraph.


The Guarantee
If the amounts to be paid by Direct Debit or the payment dates change, the organisation collecting the payment will notify you normally 10 working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed.
If an error is made by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid.
If any payment is made in error, you should contact your bank or building society who are responsible for giving you a full and immediate refund - even if the original error was made by the organisation collecting the payment.
Direct Debit is one of the safest ways of paying your bills. Fraud rarely occurs because organisations using the Direct Debit Scheme go through a careful vetting process before they're authorised, and are closely monitored by the banking industry. But if money were to be taken from your account fraudulently you'd be protected by the Direct Debit Guarantee, and would be entitled to an immediate refund from your bank or building society.
Don't forget, you can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by contacting your bank or building society. We also recommend you notify the organisation concerned.

Furthermore, as detailed by APACS:

* "With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment. This is defined as at least ten working days from receiving the notification."
* "Should any money be taken in error, then the customer's bank or building society must, on request, make an immediate [our stress] refund to the customer's account."
* "This covers situations where the originator has not given the required advance notice regarding a change of amount or date. It also protects customers should an incorrect amount be debited or if a debit occurs earlier than the specified, agreed date, or in error."


I therefore expect you to act responsibly and, more importantly, within the law regarding this matter. If this matter is not resolved satisfactorily, I shall notify both my bank and the FSA in writing in the form of an official complaint.

Regards,
Luke,

WE HEARD NOTHING....errie silence follows on the 21st we sent this

Hi Sheena,

As I have not heard back from you I have informed my bank of your error and asked them to refund all bank charges caused as a direct result of your error and subsequent breach of the Direct Debit Agreement. They have, of course, agreed to do this and will seek to recover thier charges directly from you.

Please let me know the status of my request to escalate my complaint to a more seniour member of your team, if I do not hear anything back from you by end of business tomorrow (Friday 22nd December 2006) I will escalate this issue to the FSA and inform the ISPA and OFFCOM.

Sincerely,

21st December THEM
Dear

Thank you for your email

I completely understand the inconvenience caused, but Pipex are happy to be flexible with you by spreading your payments, refunding bank charges incurred and we have given you 2 free months as a gesture of good will and apology for Pipex technical problems with our finance teams.

I have consulted my line manager and he has looked into your query in depth and feels my gestures of good will are more then adequate, and although Pipex were at fault Pipex are happy to be flexible in providing a payment plan for you.

Unfortunately I am unable to make any further offers.

Please accept my apologies and do not hesitate to contact me I you have any further queries.

Yours sincerely







21st December US

Hi Sheena,

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately I remain bitterly dissapointed by the conduct of your company regarding this matter, particularly the breach of our Direct Debit agreement and your genreal attitude towards me as a customer when I had genuinne cause to complain.

I do not feel that I can continue to do business with a company that does not respect my rights as a consumer, so please take this email as 1 month's notice of cesation of all services I currently recieve from Pipex.

You have offered me 2 months free broadband and I request that this is applied retrospectively as I will not be completing a further 2 months of my subscription with you. Please calculate this into the funds outstanding and respond to me via return of email with a proposed 3 month payment plan detailing the exact amount required to be paid each month.

Once I have recieved this from you I will take it as the manditory 10 days notice you are required by law to give me for significantly altered variable Direct Debit payments.

Once again, this is your error and it is that error has led to this situation. If you fail to comply with my request I will simply escalate this issue to the FSA, ISP and OFCOM as stated in my last email.

Sincerely,






21st December Them



Dear

Thank you for your email


I can confirm payment has not been actually taken as it was rejected by your bank, and Pipex are happy to take liability for the bank charges.

Pipex have been more the fair and reasonable to our complaint, by offering means of compensation for the inconveniences, taking liability for bank charges and arrange a payment plan.

You have signed up to Pipex terms and conditions therefore if you do require cancellation a cancellation fee will apply.

I apologise for the inconveniences caused.

Yours sincerely











21st December US
Dear Sheena,

This matter will now fall into the hands of the regulatory bodies as you are clearly not prepared to deal with me in a fair and reasonable manner. Simply saying that you have done so does not actually mean that you have. As for taking liablility for the bank charges, you are legally bound to do so, so I do not consider that to be a demonstration of your good will.

By breaching the legally binding Direct Debit Agreement you have already breached your own terms and conditions of your consumer contract with me. As such I am perfectly within my rights to expect to be released from said contract without financial penalty. If you are not prepared to do so now then I will make this a legal matter, as detailed in my last email.

Sincerely,




21st December Them
Dear SHE SPELT MY NAME WRONG GRRRRR

Thank you for your email

You are able to cancel your account but as you are within a 12 months contract, therefore you will incur a cancellation fee of the remaining subscriptions of the 12 months.

Please advise me if this is what you require and I will email you a cancellation link which you are required to fill in and submit back to us to start a 30 day cancellation period.

Yours sincerely





It was at this point after all these emails that my partner finally lost it when sh got his name wrong






21st December US

Dear Sheena,

I don't know how I can make this any clearer for you, so I'm going to try bullet points this time:

* Your company has breached a legally binding Direct Debit contract.
* Your company has failed to deal with my complaint in a fair and reasonable way.
* I can not, and should not have to, do business with a company that does not respect my legal rights as a consumer.
* As you have breached our contract, I have the right to cancel our agreement.
* You can not legally charge me for this privilige.
* I have at all times shown willingness to pay.
* I have given you 1 months notice and clear instructions on how to proceed further.
* I now have no choice but to escalate this issue to the FSA, ISPA and OFCOM, which I will do in writing today.
* I have already registered a complaint about your company's conduct with my bank and will also register a complaint about your conduct with my local Consumer affairs Officer.
* If you continue to demand payment for additional months subscription I will persue a full refund and seek compensation through the small claims court.


Sincerely,
US



On 21/12/06, Customer Care <customercare@pipex.net > wrote:

Dear Mr XXXXX


Thank you for your email

I can confirm payment has not been actually taken as it was rejected by your bank, and Pipex are happy to take liability for the bank charges.

Pipex have been more the fair and reasonable to our complaint, by offering means of compensation for the inconveniences, taking liability for bank charges and arrange a payment plan.

You have signed up to Pipex terms and conditions therefore if you do require cancellation a cancellation fee will apply.

I apologise for the inconveniences caused.



Yours sincerely
Sheena Shah
Customer Relations
Pipex Internet Ltd




Dear Sheena,

This matter will now fall into the hands of the regulatory bodies as you are clearly not prepared to deal with me in a fair and reasonable manner. Simply saying that you have done so does not actually mean that you have. As for taking liablility for the bank charges, you are legally bound to do so, so I do not consider that to be a demonstration of your good will.

By breaching the legally binding Direct Debit Agreement you have already breached your own terms and conditions of your consumer contract with me. As such I am perfectly within my rights to expect to be released from said contract without financial penalty. If you are not prepared to do so now then I will make this a legal matter, as detailed in my last email.

Sincerely,

Us




Dear Mr XXXX


Thank you for your email

I have presented to you as fail and reasonable as i feel as Pipex can be.

I apologise if you feel this is not the case, it is your decision to take this further.

Please accept my apologies for the inconveniences caused.



Yours sincerely
Sheena Shah

[davethorp]

I've got a similar thing going on with boots opticians. I had a direct debit in place for contact lenses. Halfway through 2005 I changed banks and for some reason the direct debit did not transfer over. Boots continued to supply me with contact lenses for the next 15 months despite not getting monthly payments from my bank for them and a couple of weeks ago I get a letter saying I owe them £570 but offering to knock it down to £400. Needless to say I'm going to tell them where they can shove that

Hope you get your pipex problems sorted

[alisonf]

Good Luck.... I am going to read your thread now...

This is the link to my original thread Direct Debits

Did you complain to your bank about boots?

[davethorp]

No need to really. The problem with them is that they continued supplying me with lenses even though no direct debit was in place after I moved bank which boots failed to notice until after 15 months

As no direct debit in place no need to contact my bank. I've not made a thread about this yet but I may do depending what boots do next

[Sshah]

I have been in contact with Pipex who are now Tiscali. Having received various emails forwarded from their customer "care" there is one name that comes up alot. Her name is Alexis, im not too sure what she does but she definately works for Pipex Finance.

Ive called the number on the email chain which I dont think was suppoed to be there and left various messages today. The number is 0161 451 2225. Lets see what happens!!