Stolen phone bought through Ebay

[aldezine]

I've recently purchased a mobile phone through ebay which cost me £185 inc p&p via PayPal. The phone arrived and when I put my SIM in it was unable to register with the network. I rang 3 who took the IMEI number and told me it had been reported stolen and told me to inform the Police. Ive handed the phone in have a receipt.

I have opened a dispute within PayPal asking for a full refund. The seller is demanding the return of the phone which I cannot do as (a) the Police have the phone and (b) this be knowingly handling stolen goods on my behalf.

The seller says they will not refund until they have the phone back and that they will tell PayPal that I have swapped the phone that they sent with a stolen one. The box which has the IMEI number on will definately have the sellers finger prints on it as they packed it but the Police told me that this is not enough to link them with the crime. Im worried that I may lose my money if the seller continues this story.

I have now escalated the matter to a claim through PayPal. Has anyone else had a similar problem and if so what was the outcome?

Thanks, Al

[buzby]

The problem here is you cannot return the goods to the seller, and provide Paypal with proof you did so. Because of this, PayPal will not entertain a refund under their guarantee - which is why it is always best to discuss it with the seller first, rather than a network. What made you call 3 in the first place?

Just because a phone is 'blocked' does not mean it is stolen. The IMEI database if full of legitimate phones that are blocked due to someone getting a replacement or upgrade, and casually telling the network they've lost it. That doesn't mean it is stolen, but the IMEI database does not differentiate.

If I sold you a phone, and it somehow had a problem, I would expect it back and to refund your money. If you didn't send it, I wouldn't refund you - and netiher would Paypal as you couls just as easily be trying to get a phone AND a refund! (Not saying you would, but look at it from the sellers point of view). As for fingerprints, I would doubt the usefulness of this as if it was the sellers phone originally, I'd expect his prints to be on it anyway!

Lost and Stolen on the database is one and the same thing - but entirely different in the real world, so I'd go back to the police and ask them for it back in the hope that they'll do so. Incidentally, did the phone IMEI match that on the box is was provided with?

[aldezine]

The IMEI matched the box. The finger prints were only a method of proving the phone the seller sent me is the one I have given to the police. The seller is trying to say that Ive got a blocked phone of same model with a different IMEI number and handed that in, basically trying to switch it round on me! It seems to me its some kind of scam, the seller is sending me loads of messages in broken english, reminds me of the kind of rubbish thats in my spam folder! I only rang 3 because Ive been having network problems and thought that this was just another one until they they told me one of their customers had "reported the phone stolen".

[buzby]

Well, the phone can't have been stolen (unless part of a warehouse shipment), and when someone says their phone is stolen the box and charger don't go with it! I'd go back to the police with the box and show it to them saying that three gave you misleading information as to its provenance, and you'd like it back. There's no reason for you to be out of pocket in this, but you're painting yourself into a corner by doing what you think is 'right'. If you can prove to Paypal you've returned the goods, you'll get your money back. I've purchased many phones via eBay and only had problems with 1 - the seller refinded the costs in full.

[aldezine]

I am guessing but I think the seller has probably bought it from someone who has then reported stolen afterwards thus getting the money for the sale and a replacement.

what exactly should I say to the police to get the phone back, should I say that 3 have mislead me and if so on what grounds?

[seylectric]

I would simply explain to the Police that since there is no evidence (according to them) to link it to a particular crime, or even determine that one has taken place, they have no reason to keep what is effectively your property at the moment. Also explain that the only way you can get a refund is by sending it back, but that aside I see no reason for the police to hang on to it - if there's no crime it isn't evidence!

Have you actually asked them for it back?

Incidentally if you do get it and send it back, use Special Delivery. Paypal do not accept Recorded Delivery as a trackable method so even if he gets it back and signs for it (using Recorded), Paypal bizarrely still won't accept this.

This actually happened to me last year when I returned an item using Recorded Delivery but the seller told Paypal he never received it and Paypal upheld his claim because I hadn't sent it by a trackable method. This was DESPITE the fact that he sent me an email stating that he had received a package (which I forwarded to Paypal) AND he relisted the item (which was unique, there couldn't be two of them!) but Paypal still found in his favour.

Better to get it back and try to negiotiate with him amicably, I wouldn't trust Paypal! If that doesn't work threaten him with a CCJ.

Be very careful when buying mobile phones on ebay, I sell phones on ebay and it is a minefield trying to prove you are genuine amongst all the scams. I offer a 12-month warranty on all my phones and a seven-day returns policy. Look for a seller that offers similar.

However you are unlikely to find much better deals than you can find at most of the major retailers on the net, and in some cases in the High Street! If you're looking to find a £20 or so saving on a £200 item there are other ways of doing it without taking what, as a seller I fully accept, is a risk of finding a genuine ebay seller.

It's tough - I recently bought an item from a seller who gave his location as Australia but the item came from Hong Kong. It was described as "stainless steel" and in fact was plastic, I only paid £8 but it was worth about half of that. Yet remarkably he had 7000+ 100% positive feedback and other purchasers were happy enough!

I've generally learnt to pick out the good sellers from the bad, but it's not a foregone conclusion as this example proves and in all honesty I would not spend more than a few ponuds with a seller I didn't know.

[buzby]

Agreed - show them the box and that the IMEIs match on the label and the phone (the label under the battery). Just explain that it was 3 who provided the incorrect information, and you are trying to get the database updated to reflect the true situation. IF the seller or whoever the phone was originally supplied to has told porkies about it being lost or stolen, that is of no relevance to you and you have good title, it is only 3's inepritiude and the lacklustre IMEI database that is preventing your using your purchase.

[aldezine]

Funnily enough the seller told me and I quote "you have to send the phone by recorded delivery". Good job I havent!! lol

Will let you know the outcome!
cheers, Al

[buzby]

Actually, PayPal have accepted my RD reference along with a fax copy of the receipt with no problems whatsoever, so I don;t think your seller was pulling a fast one. Hopefully you'll get your refund in exchange for the phone relatively quickly.

[lost15]

I have the same problem, I haven't contacted anyone about this apart from EBay and the seller.

I spent £120 altogether and this is a lot of money to me, will I get it back?

[buzby]

It might have been better to start a new thread - if the phone you recieved is blocked, it's worth checking to see why (whether lost, stolen or some other reason). Errors can happen - did the phone EVER work, and are you sure it simply isn't SIM locked to the network, rather than IMEI blocked.

[IdaInFife]

Paypal will except the receipt from the police. You will need to fax it to them.


Idax

[lawbunny]

If it really has been the seller's phone, then s/he should be able to phone up 3 to get access to the account and confirm the details and then explain that the handset has not been stolen: 3 can then unblock the imei.

However, I think you'll find the seller may be very reluctant to do this, as my guess is s/he got an upgrade phone, reported it lost/stolen to get a new one on insurance, and then sold the old one. It's very common.

[MARTIN3030]

Moved here Raymond,only for the reason that I am sure there will be a lot more yet to come out on this subject that will clarify things for a few users.

[buzby]

Yep - it catches many sellers out (selling their phone on eBay) thinking the deal is concluded, saying it is lost/stolen and forgetting that the network has the capability to 'brick' the phone and render it useless. This is why receiving a working phone isn't any guarantee it will stay that way.

That said, I've bought 8 phones over the years from eBay sellers and never had a problem (touchwood!).