Problems with Orange Contract

[wasimm]

Basically, I moved from my home address a year or so ago, and my brother took out a contract under my name without my authorisation. I have not communicated with my brother for over 2 years since he got married.

He obviously didnt have my authorisation, nor any proof of ID's, or anything that would authorise him to use my account/name. Because he "knew" a phone shop, he took a contract out on my name, without providing proofs.

He ran the contract for a few months, and paid the bills. i dont know how many months exactly until i visited my parents house and noticed a letter on my name. I called orange up immediately to close the account and wrote them a letter (pasted at the bottom of this email).

the letter was send on 23/06/2006.

A representative of orange called telling me that my brother was registered as a 3rd party on the account. i was furious. how on earth can they open a contract on my name without my authorisation. They said they will pass the case to the fraud team and they will get back to me.

Since then they kept sending bills like normal and today i received a letter from a debt collection agency.

I put my case here so that i could get recommendations on what i should do now. I dont really want to be spending money on solicitors, but I may have no choice because Orange will go ahead and ruin my credit history.

It shocks me how Orange so easily open accounts on peoples names.

can someone advise me on what to do, and possibly refer me to a letter that i can send orange to resolve this issue.

---------------------------
Correspondence Department,
PO BOX 10
Patchway
Bristol
BS32 4BQ


Recently when I returned to my parents house, I have come across a bill from Orange which is addressed to me.

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxx.

I have not authorised anyone to take out any contract on my name, nor have I provided any ID for such an action to take place.

This is a fraudulent connection. I want this to be fully investigated and proof of contract to be provided to me with any documents that you have.

I am shocked at the way Orange will open an account on anyone’s name without any proofs, signatures or verification of any kind.

I would like to resolve this matter as soon as possible. I have ordered my Credit Report and if Orange have damaged my credit rating in any way I will take the matter forward.

I have contacted a solicitor for legal advice in this issue; and they have advised me to write to you myself in the first instance.

If you would like to get in touch, please write to me at the above address and mark the correspondence “Private & Confidential”.

You can contact me on xxxx .if you wish.


Regards,


---------------------------

[alexifa]

I would ask them for a copy of the credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act. Template here

[Tinkerbelle]

They will tell you they do not operate under a CCA Licence like all the other Mobile Companies.

Ask thm to prove it was you who took out the contract.

[wasimm]

what should i do about the debt collection agency? about my credit history being affected? I know they wont be able to provide me any documents because i have never filled anything out and i always have my ID to myself

[Tinkerbelle]

First thing I'd suggest is that you contact the DCA and advise them of the fraudulent situation.

The main person you need to pursue to get this resolved though is Orange. They need to provide you with evidence that it was you who agreed to take out the contract. If they fail to investigate and remove the fraudulent data take them to court.

You may also want to nofity the CRA's about this as well so at least they can put a note on your account for the time being. Ask them to investigate the matter as well. Tell them fraudulent data is on your record. Identity theft whatever. I'm sure they must have a process in place to resolve that sort of issue.

At the end of the day it's up to Orange to prove that it was who took out this mobile contract, and it is up to the CRA's to prove that they are not processing fraudulent data. Make them do the work and take none of their nonsense.

This is fraud at the end of the day and can't possibly expect you to sit back and do nothing about it.

[wasimm]

the problem is that Orange do not give a ..... They have done nothing for all these months. Keep sending me bills. I cant get my voice heard. If the CCA doesnt apply to them, then i have nothing against them. Is there any similar act that applies to mobile phone companies?

I dont really see an option other than going through a solicitor.

[Tinkerbelle]

Have you reported this to the Police at all?

[wasimm]

Consumer credit licence - businesses requiring a licence doesnt mention that mobile phone companies dont operate under a CCA. any reference to this? what licence do they operate under?

[Tinkerbelle]

Originally Posted by wasimm

the problem is that Orange do not give a ..... They have done nothing for all these months. Keep sending me bills. I cant get my voice heard. If the CCA doesnt apply to them, then i have nothing against them. Is there any similar act that applies to mobile phone companies?

I dont really see an option other than going through a solicitor.

There is a something but I am just trying to find it at the moment.

I don't think you need a solicitor, but if you do decide to use one, make sure that ALL his costs are added to your court claim. Whether you use a solicitor or not, you are going to have to take this to court to get and suitable resolution.

In my opinion, Court would be the best thing. I'd like to see them explain to a judge how they have allowed this fraud to continue for so long, and end up trashing your credit hostory. It's simply unacceptable.

[Tinkerbelle]

Originally Posted by wasimm

Consumer credit licence - businesses requiring a licence doesnt mention that mobile phone companies dont operate under a CCA. any reference to this? what licence do they operate under?

All the Mobile Companies have replied (over in the Legalities section) that they do not operate under the CCA, and that there is no point submitting any requests under this act.

You could try submitting a S.A.R. but they will say that if you bought the phone over the internet then there's no signed contract.

You did say your brother went to a shop right? Do you know if he signed anything? I have no idea how these mobile shops work though I'm afraid.

There is a solution to this, we just need to sit down and work out a strategy.

Don't worry we will sort it.

[Tinkerbelle]

Also until we decide what to do next, send a copy of your letter to the Credit Referral Department if you haven't done so already and ask them if they are aware of this fraudulent activity. Contact details are:

Credit Referral Department
Orange PCS Limited
Senhouse Road
Darlington
Co Durham
DL1 4YQ

Tel: 0870 376 8888
Fax: 0870 374 5701

[dayglo]

ok - this is an area I am familiar with and I'm afraid you have 2 rather dim choices.

1) go down the police route - you have to 'shop' your brother and pass all the responsibility to him. He is likely to be charged with obtaining goods and services by deception which is a breach of section 3 of the theft act. Not pleasant

2) Take on responsibility for the debt yourself and deal with it as if you had taken on the account.

I have been somewhere very similar myself, and this is the stark reality of the situation.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - but the sooner you decide which road to go down the better.

good luck

Dayglo.

[wasimm]

thanks for taking out your time and responding to my thread. i really appreciate it.

dayglo, thanks for listing my dim options. My argument is that I have not taken out a contract. It is up to Orange to find out who did and who didnt. I did not sign any documents nor provide proof. I am not willing to waste my time or "shop" my brother.

They should be taking the time out, chasing the documents and finding out what happened. I am going to send a letter as tinkerbelle suggested, call Ofcom tommorow and contact a solicitor to deal with the issue. That way the solicitor can request the neccessary documents and close the case. Orange are more likely to take the solicitors request seriously than me on my own.

I look forward to any further suggestions. but for now, this is my exit route

[give_me_it_back]

I'm sorry you are having to endure this. It must be really unpleasant.

Orange seem to be very 'laid back' about documentation... I recently requested my credit report and noticed someone had opened an Orange account using my name but giving an address I know nothing about. I wrote to Orange and all they said was "ignore it. It was due to a fraudulent application" Needless to say, I have asked for more information.

When I hear back (IF!) I will let you know, as it will probably be interesting for you to know how Orange ascertain an application is fraudulent.

[dayglo]

dayglo, thanks for listing my dim options. My argument is that I have not taken out a contract. It is up to Orange to find out who did and who didnt. I did not sign any documents nor provide proof. I am not willing to waste my time or "shop" my brother.

Those were my thoughts at the time. The reason I posted as I did was to highlight the 'end point' - yes you can insist that Orange do some running around and investigations etc. but the point is that you know what has happened, at at some point Orange will ask you some direct questions, probably in writing to confirm that 'you have no knowledge of (something or other I can't quite recall)' and basically Orange will have to treat it as fraud. They WILL report this to the police who are obliged to investigate. The first person they will come to talk to you, and this may be a long way off in the future, but it is likely to happen. It will not take long for them figure out what has happened and your brother would be arrested and charged under section 3 of the theft act 'obtaining goods and services by deception'

That's why I asked you to think about what you would do in that situation, because all the present 'investigation' and 'running around' will lead to this conclusion. In a situation I was very familiar with, I wish I'd known the likely outcome before I wasted huge amounts of time and energy trying to get it sorted without either a) involving the police or b) accepting the debt.

sorry again.

[give_me_it_back]

This is interesting Dayglo... Orange have already written to me. A very short (2 lines) letter admitting that they know there was a "fraudulent application" made. They have not said anything about what they intend to do about it, or that they will automatically report it to the police.

Are you saying they will report every case like this to the police as a matter of course? They must have thousands of small time crooks who apply for mobile phones. I wouldn't have thought they could be bothered - their letter to me certainly gave that impression...

[dayglo]

Are you saying they will report every case like this to the police as a matter of course? They must have thousands of small time crooks who apply for mobile phones. I wouldn't have thought they could be bothered - their letter to me certainly gave that impression...

that is interesting. My experience was about 4 years ago and with a different mobile company.

I think the seriousness of this case will depend on the information that appears on the credit report.

If there is no adverse credit information (unlikely given that it's been passed to a DCA) then it will be harder to fix. If there's a default notice there - harder still.

The plan to force Orange to accept the fraud and remove adverse data from wasimm's credit file is ok. It does rely though on Orange 'not being bothered' about chasing up the cuplrit. All I can say, was in the case I am familiar with, they were bothered, they did chase up the culprit and it came down to the choice I outline above.

We maybe luckier in this case and maybe Orange won't go down the same route. I just feel obliged to point out what happened in the case I am familiar with.

I've been wrong before, I'd love to be wrong in this case.