BT Broadband - Over Limit Charges - Lawfulness?

[thegolddon]

Hi,

Keep getting charges by BT for going over my 40gb broadband limit. Can they do this or is it another case of unlawful charging?

[welly]

Hi

This is a service charge and your going over the limit and being charged for that service. (how much do they charge? was thinking of going over to them)

Also there is a tool out there that keeps a record of how much you are using as you go try and do a search for it on google or I'm sure someone will know of one.

Welly

[thegolddon]

They charge £1 for every GB you go over.

I do not recommend BT - go to Virgin Broadband instead.

my point is that the service they provide does not actually cost them anything, and as such are the charges coming under the OFT's interpretation of unlawful?

[gordonhall]

The fee should be in your terms and conditions and I don't think there is anything you can do about it.

There are many accounts out there that give a 2 gig limit per month and many people are able to cpope just fine with that amount, so it can be argued that by going over 40 gig per month, you are a heavy user, and therefore should have found a package that suits you better. I'm sure there are other packages that are out there (including BT) that give you more , but you'll hav eto pay for them.

Its also not fair to think that the service doesn't cost BT. It does both directly and indirectly. The more you use up, the slower the line is for other people which has a negative effect on BT, and all service costs something. The OFT and our argument with the banks is that the service level prices are unfair and too high.

I think there are millions of users who would like to only pay £1 per gig. That would mean many of my customers would only be paying £1 or £2 per month as they are light users.

Saying all that, I still don't like BT broadband!

[Bookworm]

Telewest: £35/month, for the 10mbs service, unlimited use.

For all the other gripes I may have with them (but I have a feeling they're gripes I woud have with all Telcomps), they're still the best service/value for money I can get. I would never ever go back to BT, which I left the first day it became possible. I thought about Talk Talk, but the reports coming show that the old adage "if it sounds to be good to be true, it probably is" holds true yet again...

[AndyE]

Originally Posted by thegolddon

my point is that the service they provide does not actually cost them anything, and as such are the charges coming under the OFT's interpretation of unlawful?

Bandwidth does cost money, hence the reason this is a charge for a service, just as a telecoms provider can charge for phone calls made once an inclusive number of minutes is used up.

[bytor]

I'm with bt on their 40gb limit. I've had the charges as well, big mistake going back to them when I moved house but at the time it was the only way I could get broadband. Some problem with the line stopped other providers setting it up, drove me mad being pushed from piller to post. Anyway, don't forget upload counts towards your download limit.

[thegolddon]

The worst thing is that where i live, the are no other providers except Virgin. Do i feel stupid for going with BT? Oh yes.

[AndyE]

Originally Posted by thegolddon

The worst thing is that where i live, the are no other providers except Virgin. Do i feel stupid for going with BT? Oh yes.

No other providers apart from Virgin? That doesn't make sense. If you're on BT ADSL then you should be able to switch to any IPStream provider unless something very odd is happening. What happens if you go to another ISP and enter your details in the availability checker? What message does it give you?

[ED1237]

I have just been mail shot by sky. From what I remember it is offering a faster speed than BT for around £10 and no usgae limit. I could have kicked myself as I am only three months into a contract with BT. DOH

[blacksheep1979]

dumeter will tell you your usage for day/month etc. Have a look at eclipse - they are unlimited usage.

Or

as we've just done, sign up to NTL (if you have it in your area), you don't need a phone and they do 4mbit for ~£25/month. After a week or so phone up and ask to cancel, when asked why state that sky are doing 16mbit for £10/month. They dropped out price to £12.50/month and after saying sky would give a wireless router as well they credited our account with £55. Few days later we called up again and said still wanted to cancel - same story and they said the best they could do was 10mbit for £10/month. So all in all we've got 12 months internet for £120, less the £55 they credited us with - give it a go folks.

[AndyE]

Originally Posted by teddea

I have just been mail shot by sky. From what I remember it is offering a faster speed than BT for around £10 and no usgae limit. I could have kicked myself as I am only three months into a contract with BT. DOH

Before you switch broadband provider check out the forums at ADSLguide: Viewing list of forums - they'll give you a pretty good feel for the service of any ISP. No ADSL provider can realistically offer cheap, unlimited, high speed internet access in the UK at the moment.

[meagain]

Originally Posted by AndyE

No ADSL provider can realistically offer cheap, unlimited, high speed internet access in the UK at the moment.

AIUI, this is mostly due to the fact that BT still control the majority of the infrastructure, meaning that the other providers have to agree to BT Wholesale's terms - which includes mandatory bandwidth capping. Providers that want to provide uncapped products have to pay BT vast amounts of money to be able to provide them. With cable, the infrastructure is owned by NTL-Telewest, so they are able to control the bandwidth they provide without worrying about BT.

As for charging £1/GB, it's possible to argue that under SOGASA it's not a "fair and reasonable" price for the bandwidth (a more reasonable price is less than 30p/GB). Remember, it's not the amount of data transferred that costs money for ISPs, it's the rate at which they carry it (throughput). However, without enough detailed figures to come up with a more accurate figure, it would be difficult to fight this. You could argue that since the limitations are typically included in the contract (something about Fair Usage Policies) you are being penalised for breaching your contract by exceeding these limits, which would open the way for you to get the lot back, not just a more reasonable price, since BT's reasonable costs would not be much more than 20p/GB. The drawback is that this is (AFAIK) entirely untested, so not really worth trying for unless you are being hit with huge amounts of fees.

As a guide (but a poor one), I am reliably informed by system administrators whose networks are connected to JANET that they pay as little as 3p/GB, though not only is this discounted on account of the large amount of bandwidth coming on and off JANET, but it's also heavily subsidised by UKERNA, which pays the rest of the cost itself.

[tim2718281]

Originally Posted by meagain

AIUI, this is mostly due to the fact that BT still control the majority of the infrastructure, meaning that the other providers have to agree to BT Wholesale's terms - which includes mandatory bandwidth capping.

My understanding is that BT provides ISPs with an IP connection from the ISP customers' ADSL link, and BT charges the ISP by the gigabyte transferred.

Some BT exchanges have the capability for "Local Loop Unbundling" (LLU). Where this is available, the ISP can use a IP transport service other than BT's.

This is how some ISPs have been abale to offer radically different pricing; but their best prices will only be available on exchanges with LLU.

I have Sky TV, but I cannot get the attractive Sky Broadband service yet. Instead, Sky offer me a more limited service, for £18 a month ... I am sticking with NTL.

Tim