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Originally Posted by apb412000  Hi james while my situation has similarities , I am working my way through the solutions. I bought a phone from carphone warehouse the contract is virgin, they said to me get the phone free and you can claim back you monthly charges with statments four and eight everything was fine with four but when I missed payments on the contract they said I had to pay in order to get the refund, the first thing I did was look at the contract and either I must be blind or I'm just not looking hard enough because nowhere does it say virgin and carphone warehouse are linked, (this is when it suits them so the first thing is a letter to them asking why its not in the small print, and from there I will let you know I get on, you have to just keep on plugging away |
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Hi All
I've heard about this site through a friend of mine who has received great assistance with regards to bank charges and I have a problem of my own with one of these on line mobile phone companies who have completely ripped off my partner and I wanted to see if there were any other members who have suffered similar problems and what have they done to get it resolved, any advise would be great as I'm getting no replies from the company involved.
My partner took a new mobile phone out through phones2udirect back in Jan, they were offering a deal with O2 for 12 months free line rental. My partner signed up to this and the next day she asked about how she could port her existing number over. I said she would have to contact 3, her previous provider, and obtain the PAC code for the phone which she duely did. She contacted O2 to give details of this and the number was transferred over. We are now 6 months later and to claim her 12 months free line rental she has to send off her 6th, 9th and 12th bills so she sent off her 6th bill as instructed. She has then received a letter from phones2udirect to say that because she has ported her number this is classed as disconnection and the full cost of her free handset will apply, a staggering £205.63 for a phone which has a RRP of around £80-£90. As well as this they say she no longer qualifies for the 12 months free line rental and for the tarriff she is on she has been paying £30 a month by D/D, so no payments have been missed either, which will total for 12 months £360. This on top of the initial charge which they have already taken from her card mean the true cost of just transferring her number is £565.63, surely this can't be even close to being a just charge???
We have tried to contact phones2udirect by tel where it is an answer machine saying to leave a message and they'll get back to us, which they haven't, and e-mail which we received an automated response to say that we'll be contacted in 24 hours which hasn't happened either.
If anyone can get in touch with me who has been through a similar experienjce and have overcome this shocking treatment please get in touch and let me know how you've gone about it as my partner is at her wits end about it.
Many Thanks
James Scott
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THINGS TO BEAR IN MIND ABOUT THE MOBILE INDUSTRY:
Resellers get paid anywhere after 3-9 months of you signing up on a contract - if for some reason the contract goes into arrears the resellers gets what is known as a 'claw-back' where the network takes back the commission paid to the reseller. If the CPW, or any other reseller, have been notified the commission on your account has not been paid, they will refuse to honour the terms of the agreement.
Networks (O2, Vodafone, Orange etc) are very much like banks in this regard - they control the whole arena and really don't have to answer to anyone!
Carphone Warehouse is merely a reseller for mobile networks (with the exception of O2 where it has brought airtime - rule of thumb - the contract is with whomever the bills arrive from).
If the deal was a Virgin deal / promotion it will be written into your contract, if it was a CPW deal (99% likely) then it is up to them to pay out and they would have provided their own TOC's for this offer / promotion.
The reason why a mobile phone with an RRP of £80-£90 is being charged at £200 with line rental discounts etc is the commission the networks pay resellers - if you were to buy the phone as an off the shelf product e.g. in Dixon's the cost would be high, it is only because the resellers commission covers the cost of the phone that consumers get phones free or at a significantly reduced rate. A simple Google search for "SIM Free Nokia xxxxx" or whatever brand of phone you have gives a true indication as to the cost of these items – don’t forget profit (around £20-£60 per unit) and VAT.
This is also why the number port caused the cancellation of the agreement with James Scott - if you had included the number port when you took out the contract there would not have been a problem as the 2 numbers would have been linked with both phones2udirect and O2 - because you did it after the event (and by the sounds of it with O2 direct, and not phones2udirect) the new number you had created has been cancelled, replaced with the number you ported over (which now has a new account number). You should only be liable for the cost of the phone, and not the outstanding contract amount, which should still remain valid, unless you have specifically cancelled it?
As far as the network is concerned then they will not pay out to phones2udirect on this cancelled number. (O2 of course are happy with this as the reseller gets the stick from you, the consumer, whilst they retain your business for no outlay to phones2udirect).
The 'free line rental' is something phones2udirect offer (from this hefty commission they get) which again, is why this hasn't been honoured by O2. In my experience phones2udirect however (who have acted by the sounds of it appallingly!!!) should have just informed O2 that is the case and they should get paid on it - there is an appeals procedure between resellers / networks on this although I know though that recently certainly O2 have been clamping down with on this, so it may not be the case.
Where this all lies legally is for experts to decide, it is such a common part of mobile business since the 80's I imagine there is something in the standard terms - but check again - dont take my word for it I only know why it is - not the law!!!!!!!
A GENERAL NOTE ON HOW THESE OFFERS WORK: VERY IMPORTANT:
The problem with all of these mobile deals lies that with most of them the 'carrot' payment / cashback whatever comes after 3 months WHEN THE RESELLER GETS PAID. If for any reason your contract gets 'cancelled' with the network (THIS MAY JUST BE SOMETHING VERY INCONSEQUENTIAL OR SEEMINGLY INSIGNIFICANT - e.g. because your direct debit information was entered incorrectly or refused and the first payment wasn't taken) THE RESELLER IS NOT PAID ON YOUR ACCOUNT - therefore they lose money if they honour the agreement. This also accounts for business connections too. I repeat - an honest reseller will tell you this up front before you sign the contract.
The commission for one connection can run to hundreds of pounds (some bigger contracts, especially business ones thousands!). The problem is you only have 28 days in which to cancel your contract, but the reseller may not be informed for up to 60 days (accounts are monthly), and you a few days after that.
The only thing I can suggest if you take out any 'special' deals is to keep the box and all accessories, dont scratch the phone (even keep the plastic film on!!) and make sure that all of your payments are processed correctly and that you deal, at least initially with the reseller if you have any problems / queries with your account.
If they don't care or won't help in person (most want to sell you a phone and throw you out the door!) post a copy of your request to them in writing to the branch or office where you brought the phone (so it can't get 'lost' in red tape) by recorded delivery and mention in the letter if you do not hear within x days you will contact the network and arrange for 'y' to be done, and that this shouldn't affect the deal you have with them, and if it doesn't it isn't your fault! ((Legal Expert needed here please!!))
Judging from the comments on this forum most people are having a variation of this problem, and it should only take a few well meaning legal experts to clarify what I have said and produce a working response.
James Scott: I think the problem is you made the same basic error many people make - you contacted the network directly (this is not your fault - the reseller may have not been accesible) as you changed your number direct with the network this then froze out the reseller - when they came to claim against your account they found it was no longer active (you now have a new number / account) and so commenced action to reclaim the phone - from their point of view they have given you a £200 phone for nothing!!
Whist appearing sympathetic and may offer you some sort of discount I do not know how they stand in honouring the agreement made via a 3rd party, or cancelling the contract after the statutory 28 days.
abp412000: The companies aren’t linked (covered above!) but I seem to have missed your problem – if you pay your bill (which unless there is a problem you should anyway?) you should get the promotion offered – if there is something more can you let me know and I will endeavour to help!
I reiterate I AM NOT A LEGAL EXPERT and cannot provide legal advice – however I am happy to help anyone legal or layman with any specific enquiries about how the industry works, and any problems / queries they have, either with a phone manufacturer or contract / network / reseller.
Rip Off Mobile Phone Companies 
