O2 Mobile - Most Disappointing Experience

[Jawad]

Here is my most recent experience of maltreatment and abuse by O2 Mobile. Can someone kindly study this 'enlightening' case and advise me about the future course and my rights?

The following is a brief summary of the case:

1. In May 2007, I contracted with O2 in an 18 month 25 talker plan. Mobile phone number: 07912751373. I had been told by my friends that calls from O2 to non-geographical numbers starting from 08 are free. However, as it transpired later on, O2 had changed the terms and conditions (only since 1 May 2007) making them invisible in the four pages of small print. I had read the terms and conditions before that date and was happy with them. I did not realize that O2 had changed the conditions in a subtle manner. Based on this and after having realized this billing expenditure, I requested O2 by email in June 2007 to either offer me the previous terms and conditions, the ones I saw on their website before 1 May or alternatively cancel my contract.
2. On 13 July 2007, I was contacted by email by Mr Paul (?) of O2 Ecare team who wrote (vide O2 - Billing enquiry KMM229479090V53630L0KM)
that "We can't freeze your account without charges. We're still providing a service to you and we can see you're still using it. The last call was made yesterday (12/7/07). We'll continue to ask for payment each month as stated in the terms of your contract. If the account remains unpaid, we may have to add restrictions to stop the bills rising further…I can understand this may not be the response you want and I'm glad you've contacted our complaints review service for more help. However, you've stated you sent an email to complaintreview@o2.com - this isn't the correct email address. The email address is complaintreviewservice@o2 .com. Please make sure you've sent an email to this correct address. Within 5 working days of receiving your complaint, they contact you with an acknowledgement."
3. On 13 July 2007, I responded to Mr Paul of O2 Ecare team by email with a copy to Otelo and also the complaint review service of O2 and wrote that: "The wrong email address complaintsreview@o2.com was provided by one of the O2 telephone customer service persons Ms Catriona Wood on 10 June 2007 (Ref No. 109908906) or one of her colleagues. Yet, another example of the quality of service provided by O2? Your response to keep charging me though I don't want to continue this contract is grossly unethical. I will hold you accountable for this practice through all possible legal means. I am copying this correspondence to O2 complaints review with a hope they will intervene and resolve this issue without late."
4. On 16 July 2007, I was contacted by Ms Katie Halstead of Customer Relations Department of O2 (Reference: 774406) who wrote that: "Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to investigate this matter any further, as I don’t have sufficient details. Please can you call me on 0845 3300684 or respond to this email and provide me with your mobile number. This will enable me to resolve this matter to your satisfaction. I’m available Monday to Thursday between 8am and 6.30pm."
5. On 16 or 17 July, I called Ms Katie Halstead and had a conversation with her but unfortunately the mater was not resolved to my satisfaction.
6. On 24 July 2007, I received a letter from O2 Collection, the last correspondence I ever received from O2, which advised me to immediately pay the areas of GBP61.06 (Account No: 1005749881).
7. Although Ms Katie Halstead of O2 Customer Relations Department had assured me in her email dated 16 July 2007 that the matter will be resolved to my satisfaction, this proved to be a false promise. In the meanwhile, O2 already started penalizing me by disconnecting my telephone.
8. On 25 July 2007, I received an email by Otelo (Ms Rachel Jaggers, Enquiry Officer, case 273529), that I should keep pursing the O2 Complaint Review Service for a resolution on either: Fax: 0113 388 1153 or Email: complaintreviewservice@o2 .com However, I never received a deadlock letter from O2 advising me that they will no longer be handling the complaint or that they can't do anything for you and this is their final position.
9. Furthermore, no monthly bill or any notice was sent to me after 24 July 2007. This was a violation of what I was promised by Mr Paul of O2 Ecare team in his email dated 13 July 2007 that "We'll continue to ask for payment each month as stated in the terms of your contract."
10. No final deadlock letter was issued by O2 advising me that they were unable to resolve the issue to my satisfaction.
11. On 30 July 2007, I contacted O2 by telephone to advise them that I had sent this case to Otelo for their intervention.
12. In April 2008, I requested Experian (a credit rat agency) for a copy of my credit report. The report (dated 22 April 2008) advised me that O2 had ruined my credit rating by unilaterally declaring me a defaulter. This has caused an irreparable damage to my personal reputation.
13. On 26 April 2008, I contacted O2 Collections (Telephone: 08702003308) and was advised by Ms Sophia that I could get my phone reconnected by paying the areas of GBP25 per month since the contract started. (Please listen to this telephone conversation if O2 have not already got rid of the recording.)
14. On 27 April 2008, I contacted O2 Collections and this time I was advised by Ms Nicola Lee (Collections Manager of O2) that it was not possible to make payment to O2 because my number had been allocated to another customer, and that I was now liable for full payment (until December 2008) without any right to use O2 services, and that the matter had been referred to a collection agent, Moorcroft. Ms Lee admitted that no payment notice or any other notice of any kind had been sent to me in any form (by post or by email) after August 2007. She told me that I had been sent a bill in August 2007 but I told her that the last notice I received from O2 was dated 24 July 2007. When I requested Ms Lee to resend me a copy of the letters sent after 24 July 2007, and which never reached me, Ms Lee told me that she was unable to do so because the system did not allow her to resend the letters.

I am writing this email with an intention to settle this dispute with O2 in a manner in which I don't remain aggrieved and abused as a customer of O2. I have full intention to make full payment to O2 only if they allow me to avail their services as per their original contract.

Since O2 never issued a deadlock letter to me and have instead resorted to harass and penalize me by disconnecting my phone in August 2007, ruining my credit ranking by declaring me a defaulter, and referring my case to a commercial collection agency without giving me notice of any kind, I remain abused and discriminated by O2 in violation of professional and ethical conduct.

Can anyone kindly advise me on how to pursue this case further?

Many thanks.

[OrangePrimate]

So, in a nutshell.....

You where told by friends that calls from O2 to 0800 numbers were free

you took out a contract with O2 in May 07 AFTER they had changed their charging structure ref 0800 numbers (that can happen at any time by any network and is not part of any contract T&C's unless specifically noted)

(I dont see anywhere in the post that you clarified with either a retail store or O2 themselves any details ref the 0800 numbers?)

in July 07 you disputed that these calls should be charged for and demanded that you get them free despite that not being part of the agreement you signed with them.

You have recieved a phone and used their service for a number of months but have failed to pay for those services, subsequently being cut off and removed from the O2 network for failing to pay the bills for said services

In August 07 following a telephone conversation in which you state it was NOT resolved to your satisfaction, you still failed to pay the bills, even though fully aware of the situation.


If all the above is true, IMHO i dont think you have a leg to stand on!! and i seriously dont see how you have been abused, maltreated or discriminated against.

This is my personal opinion, which you did ask for, but probably not what you wanted to hear though!! I am sure this will have some differing viewpoints posted, and maybe some legal standpoint guidance.

[Jawad]

Dear OrangePrimate,

Many thanks for the note. I understand your rationale.

My problem is that yesterday when I contacted O2 to settle my bill, first they said they would restore my phone if I paid my arears todate (My contract is untel December 2008).

However, later on, they told me that it was not possible to restore or reconnect my phone; that my case had been referred to Debt Collectors, and that I had to pay the full dues until December 2008, and that I would not be able to have my phone reconnected even if I paid all my arears including until December 2008. This is despite the fact that they did not issue me with any final termination notice or what is called as "deadlock letter" by Otelo.

What do you think?

[buzby]

I agree with all OrangePrimate has told you, up until the handset was disconnected they have acted reasonably throughout. Can I also add, O2 has ALWAYS charged for calls to 08 numbers (since 1986 and they were called Cellnet ). The only difference was initially they had added certain 087 codes to their table of 'inclusive' numbers, along with 01 & 02 numbers. This was changed, and all customers were advised that these 087 codes were being removed from the inclusive call bundles.

Now - where your dispute has merit is that you were promised one thing by one part of O2, but completely different by another. You'll find there is always a breakdown of communications here - CS try to help, but collections only want the money and seldom see the need to compromise.

It is their ball - and it depends if you have the energy to fight them, but there's no guarantee of success. I would be more concerned about what they are doing to your credit file. Getting collections to agree to remove any adverse data would be far more valuable than getting them to turn the phone back on.

[Jawad]

Dear Raymond, Thanks very much for your very helpful note. Please advise is it was legal for O2 to rurin my credit file when the case was with Otelo? Also, was it legal for O2 to refer my case to Debt Collectors without issuing me a 'deadlock letter'?

I am happy to make the payment but what is the best course? I have also written to Otelo? Would they be of some help? or Offcom?

Please advise the best possible course. Thank you. Jawad

[Jawad]

Also, please refer to para. 8 of my very first post. On 25 July 2007, I received an email by Otelo (Ms X X, Enquiry Officer, case 273529), that I should keep pursing the O2 Complaint Review Service for a resolution on either: Fax: 0113 388 1153 or Email: complaintreviewservice@o2 .com However, I never received a deadlock letter from O2 advising me that they will no longer be handling the complaint or that they can't do anything for you and this is their final position.

I received no such letter from O2. Actually they stopped communicating with me after July 2007. They did not even send me monthly bill or arears notice or notice of termination or notice of referring my case to Debt Collectors. None at all so far.

[buzby]

OFCOM don't deal with consumer disputes, so OTELO is your only route, but there is no guarantee they will side with you. Whilst firms are expected to delay recovery measures pending the outcome of dispute resolution, the CRAs are a different ballgame. You already gave O2 permission to disclose your conduct of the account to these firms, so there isn't much you can do because, at the moment - what they've said about you isn't inaccurate.... even if you pay off any monies owed. As long as they show that you've paid it - they're in the clear.

The need for a proper paper trail from these firms is sadly not an issue, (as it would be if it was say a Credit Agreement and regulated by the CCA), it just points to the chaotic way they handle collectiions.

[Jawad]

Thanks for that.

But can O2 refer my case to Collection Agency without giving me a final notice. They referred my case to Collection Agency in April 2008 whereas they did not send me single letter or bill since July 2007.

Now that I am willing to pay the full areas, what's the best way out, e.g. clarifying my credit rating file etc.

[buzby]

In a word, yes. They can use any legal methods they like to entice you to pay, Mobile networks are pretty fickle and often will 'sell' the debt onto a third party collection service rather than try to entice the customer to pay - this way they get (say) 50% of what is owed from the collection company and the network moves on. No 'final notice' is required - it may be courteous for them to do so, but these days are long gone - the invoice goes out, you don't pay or query within a reasonable time, they cut you off and demand payment. If none is forthcoming the contract is cancelled a final bill generated and they'll ask for this to be paid. If it isn;t it goes out to collection. (Or a close variation). However in the period they gave you to pay, when you didn't - the referral to a DCA wouldn't come as a surprise - they don't 'beg' you to pay - they try to nag you by phone. If you'd not given them another number, that's probably why you heard nothing. Just because you didn;t hear anything for 10 months doesn't usually mean they (or their DCA) don't want the money.

[Jawad]

Thanks once again.

However, I never received a final invoce of more than GBP400. All I received was an invoice for an arear of two months for GBP61 only in July 2007. That was the last ever notice or bill that they sent.

Even at that time, my case was pending with Otelo with a dedicated case number. Any legal hope?

[installspark]

Jawad

Whilst I have every sympathy in your case, it was and remains your responsibility to read the T&C's in force at the date of agreeing the contract.

Your friends were correct in as much as that prior to May 07 there were tariffs which included all non geographical numbers as part of the inclusive minutes allowance, i.e Q107 and before, it needs to be noted that not all channels of sale had these tariffs available to them. Also you would have only benefited from this up to 28 September 2007 when all NGN's became chargeable, but you would have had the option to disconnect your account due to the detrimental change to the T&C had you been on an older tariff.

In relation to the rest of your comments, you should have received a notice of full service disconnection which would have included the termination fee (line rental for the rest of the contract term) and would also have notified you that continued non payment would be notified to the CRA's.

By continuing to use the service, as you have stated in the OP, you will have been deemed to have accepted the T&C, and as such o2 will have fulfilled their part of the contract, however the handling of the complaint can be called into question. For a deadlock letter not to be issued is not unheard of, this has happened to me as it was point blank refused, however you will require confirmation that the complaints review service are refusing to issue one before Otelo will become involved on your behalf. This is of course presuming that you supplied o2 with the required information about your complaint as was asked for.

It is possible to get copies of letters and communications between yourself and o2 via a Subject Access Request, however you will need to pay £10.00 in order to receive this.

[Jawad]

Installspark and others,

Thanks very much for the helpful note.

I am happy to make full or partial payment to O2. However, what is the best possibel course in this case. I am interested in:

1. Getting my name cleared from the credit rating file.
2. To get at least some phone services from O2 against the payment I make. My contract (cancelled) was uptil December 2008.

[buzby]

Not much hope from either I would think - you agreed to sharing the data with a CRA when you took out the contract, so trying to get this removed because you don;t like what's there won'y be a legitimate reason for removal. O2 can pick and choose whether they want you as a customer, and if they had you marked as a ' problem ' they disconnect service and move on. You cannot force them to reconnect simply to make use of whatever fees you've already paid them - and in a situation like this they probably would not for fear of having more money owed at a later stage. You could offer them an additional advance payment to cover future use (deposit ) but they don't have to accept this.

[Jawad]

thanks for this.

So in a nutshell, you suggest that my only course is to make full payment to CRA or O2 (more than 400GBP) and that is it. No redress whatever is possible?

[alanfromderby]

The only thing I would add to this, is that you may have a claim against any fees and charges they have added, as these have to be proportionate to their actual costs. You may be able to use that as leverage to come to a reduced settlement figure.

[Jawad]

Thanks, Alan.

When you say "claim against any fees and charges they have added, as these have to be proportionate to their actual costs". Does that mean can I ask them not to charge for at least from April 2008 to December 2008 even if they are bent on cancelling the contract because I want to fully settle this account.