Vodafone contract on file - but have never had one! dan vs. brick wall!

[dan.b]

letter 1 - from templates. Shouldn't have sent this one, should have been more specific about never having had an account with them. Live and learn.

VODAFONE HOUSE
THE CONNECTION
NEWBURY
BERKSHIRE RG14 2FN

Date: 11th April 2007
Dear Sir or Madam
After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against an account in my name.
Further to this I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.
1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number 1587 716732.
2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice
3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on
I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.
Yours faithfully

[dan.b]

letter 2 - they have refused as they are not regulated by the consumer credit act and information not stored in a way covered by the Data Protection Act.

30th May 2007
To Whom it may concern,

This letter is in relation to a notice I sent Vodafone under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 dated 11th April 2007. In it, I stated that I had no recollection of having a contract with Vodafone Ltd. nor any recollection of receiving a default notice regarding this ‘debt’. The letter you sent me in reply does not show any information on a contract with yourselves nor does it show any information of this account going into default nor any default notices being issued on the accounts.

With regards to my request for a copy of the default notice and your refusal to send it (and refusal to admit that it exists) I must inform you that for a default to be registered in the first place a properly formatted default letter must first be issued.

In the vast majority of cases, before a lender or hirer can take action against a debtor or borrower, a default notice has to be served. The default notice has to comply with the Act and the relevant regulations (Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1993). If a default notice in the proper form is not served, the action cannot proceed.

Furthermore, you refused to provide a signed and true copy of the contract that even validates you having myself as a customer or being given permission by myself to pass information on my “account” to the credit reference agencies (again a request under the consumer credit and data protection acts).

If you continue to dispute that your company infact does not need to provide proof of a default being issued or having an account with you in the first place, then I will have no choice but to take this further and have it proven in a court of law. Please note, a typed up MEMO of account (with who – not me!) does not constitute a contract.

If infact it is taken that far and proven that you have refused reasonable requests to provide information that could substantiate the information that your company put on my credit file, and in doing so have caused me unreasonable distress (financially and emotionally) then I will also apply for court costs to go against Vodafone and make very public this issue that I am going through. If your response is not satisfactory and received within 7 days of this letter (which I am also faxing to your head office) I will initiatiate court proceedings, and I believe the judge will take a dim view of this matter reaching that stage when you could have provided the information I requested under the data protection act to have resolved this whole matter.

Again, this is a formal notice that if you cannot substantiate the data I must insist that it is removed.

[dan.b]

I then received after a phone call a S.A.R posted to me, just received a few days ago - but only a MEMO of account containing some calls the user had made to customer services and offers of payment that were never made. Looks like whoever did this wasn't just in it for the phone but to use it as a phone too, what an idiot.

anyway, latest letter:

2nd July 2007
To Whom it may concern,

In relation to an account held at ’----------------’ under the name of ‘-------------------’.

Thankyou for your reply to my Subject Access Request.
I feel I must inform you that the information you provided (a printed MEMO of account) does not substantiate myself having a signed account with your company. I have no memory of this account nor any dealings with yourselves.

I have been asked to provide proof that the contract was not signed by myself before any information will be removed from my credit file. I would respectfully ask you how you intend for myself to provide such proof when I have no copy of said contract and you have refused to provide it along with my S.A.R data. In-fact your company is in the position to provide proof to myself that such a signed contract does in-fact exist and to put rest to this whole matter (although if one did exist I would contest it as fraudulant).

I feel I have spent a more than reasonable amount of time trying to reason with your company.
Again, this is a formal notice that if you cannot substantiate the data I must insist that it is removed as it has caused and is causing me unreasonable stress and meaning I am unable to obtain credit which is a necessity in this day and age.

As of 5pm 1st July 2007 I intend to file with the courts to request it ordered that this information is removed and include a claim for costs (currently 10 hours of my time at my current hourly rate with my employer £14/hour totalling £140 and an additional £150 for the cost of filing for this judgement) which totals £290.

You could have avoided this action by supplying me with the details of the account under the data protection act but as you are contesting that you are not legally required to do this, I will have to challenge this at court. Please note that if this gets to court, in order to prove the debt exists you will have to supply this contract in which case I believe that it will look like you have unnecessarily with-held information that could have stopped it getting to this stage.

As a gesture of good-will I have given your company plenty of time to comply with my requests and respond to my mailings but I must re-iterate that this issue will not go away and currently I feel I am left with no alternative than to file for a court date.

Best Regards
....

CC'd to fax & email.

Any ideas what will happen next. Should I file? I think in absence of advice I am going to pay the £150 as this is worth it if I can clear my name and file I had just hoped it wouldn't have come to this!

[buzby]

You'll get nowhere doing a claim for costs etc based on your time - you'll be surprised how quickly a Judge goes against a pursuer when this happens. You lose the sympathy vote.

As to their Data Protection Act liabilities - they are liable, but not under CCA as you discovered. However, if the account is not yours then asking for a Subject Access Request doesn't assist your case. You need to establish WAS there an agreement, you've not said if you entered into an made payments and are just looking for paper confirmation, or if you genuinely have no knowledge of the debt.

[dan.b]

Originally Posted by buzby

You need to establish WAS there an agreement, you've not said if you entered into an made payments and are just looking for paper confirmation, or if you genuinely have no knowledge of the debt.

I included this in my latest letter..

Thankyou for your reply to my Subject Access Request.
I feel I must inform you that the information you provided (a printed MEMO of account) does not substantiate myself having a signed account with your company. I have no memory of this account nor any dealings with yourselves.

I do not beleive I have ever had an account with VF and am simply asking them for a copy of the contract so I can verify the signature (although that could have been forged) or to verify that the signed contract even exists. Am I going along the wrong lines?

Cheers for the advice on costs, maybe I wont include that in my claim, it might possibly make them take it a little more seriously though.

Thanks for any help!

[buzby]

What you have to watch for is not all mobile phone contracts exist on paper - one sold by the web probably won't, so you need to tick a virtual box or make a payment or two to confirm the arrangement. There have been folk trying it on saying I didn't take out a contract (or sign for one) hoping to get out of it this way, so the networks don;t all fall down and give up because there's no signature.

You need to assert you never took out a contract, never paid for one, and that the network and/or dealer be a victim of identity fraud. However don't go down this route unless you genuinely didn't take out the contract.

[Surfer01]

Today I requested from Vodfone either a copy of my contract or a copy of the verbal recording as I am unsure of the cost and package that was agreed at the time over the phone plus the freebies they threw in to get me to agree. This contract was agreed in April 2007.
Vodfone state that they sent me the terms and conditions which is the contract. When I disputed this with the lady on the telephone I was told not to be stupid (her words) as the T & Cs were the contract. Since when do T & Cs constitute a contract? This lady was downright rude to me, told me I was arguing for nothing when all I was asking for was a copy of the contract in what ever form. I don't have an arrears issue with them, but I do feel that I am being billed incorrectly. Surely they are obliged to supply a copy of the contract if it is requested by the customer if they never supplied one in the first place.
Can any one advise on the correct way to approach this in order to obtian a copy of the contract?

[buzby]

Try writing for it. T&Cs are not the contract, only the terms that the contract operates under. It will not specify anything that relates to your arrangement, like your minimum term, the phone you got etc etc. A Subject Access Request will be the only way to know what details they hold on you and your obligations. You might not get the copy of the document itself, but you'll discover what they've said is the benefits under it.