krysus vs SLC

[krysus]

Thanks Noomill Appreciated.

[krysus]

Had my Subject Access Request stuff come in the post, at least it cost them this time - £5.90!

Anyway.... £278 in charges, not much, but it would clear the remnants of one of my loans.

Prelim letter going off tomorrow, along with separate CCA request on both my accounts. Presume i'm doing the right thing sending 2x£1 as i'm requesting copies of 2 agreements?

Also had a letter off Collections - even though i've only missed 1 payment, their letter states "failing to pay us 2 monthly instalments" - maybe they mean 1 payment per account, although they've only quoted 1 agreement number on the letter! Numpties!!

Anyway, stated on CCA request that my accounts are now in dispute - thanks Noomill for the letter

Let's see what happens next.

[noomill060]

Good stuff.

They will tell you that the charges were applied in accordance with your terms and conditions and that you wont be getting them removed, so forget any chance of an early resolution. Dont bother getting into a letter writting duel with them.

Just follow the CAG method of prelim with 14 days to respond, then send LBA, then 14 days later start your Small Claim for:

Charges

Interest on charges @ 8% per annum compounded

Court fee

County Court interest @ 8% simple

[noomill060]

This what I eventually did after a lot of pointless letter writing and attempts to reason with them.

It worked. Feel free to use my partics adjusted to suit your own situation.

[krysus]

12 + 2 days is up tomorrow for them to reply to my double CCA request, nothing received from them yet

That also makes it 14 days since Prelim, LBA going off tomorrow too. Do i politely remind them that they've failed to acknowledge CCA at the same time, or shall i just leave it another 40 days.

I've heard that SLC will only refund charges to the loan, hence reducing the outstanding balance. How does this work then if the debt becomes unenforcable due to no CCA? Surely they'll have to refund it directly to myself?

[noomill060]

They will repay any charges which you have actually handed money over for, plus interest, plus your Court fee.

If charges remain unpaid on your loan account, they will simply remove them.

[krysus]

Had 'standard' response today...

"SLC deems it appropriate to apply charges ... where customer has failed to conduct their loan in accordance with their loan terms and where that failure has resulted in the Company incurring additional costs

...

It should be noted that you have not actually paid any of the charges applied as they remain outstanding.

Please find enclosed copy of SLC charges policy, OFT confirmation that charges are fair. Also enclosed is a copy of your signed CCA, and T&C's."

Scan of CCA here: SLC CCA

Can someone advise if it is correctly executed?

I requested copies of CCA's relating to two accounts with them, when in actual fact i've taken out 3 loans, one from Uni X, then 2 for Uni Y for consecutive years. Now SLC have only provided me with a copy of the last loan I took out, no CCA's provided for the other two loans.

Ok, so i haven't paid any charges yet, but they're still on the outstanding balance.

Now the last loan equates to 1/2 of the balance on one account, and the other account is pretty much down to just the charges they've levied.

Also, i've made payments in excess of £2100 to the 'combined' account, so if i took off the balance of the unenforceable loan (if it ends up that way), there would be almost no balance outstanding.

So, where do i stand on the basis that they've failed to provide 2 CCA's? I presume after 40 days, only the one that they've provided is enforceable?
Is there any point then in getting charges refunded on what may become an unenforceable account?


Thanks as usual.

[noomill060]

Forget the CCA stuff.

Just reclaim your charges in the same way as CAG recomends you reclaim bank charges.

Get a list of your charges

Ask for them back

Then, when they refuse, send 14 day Letter Before Action.

Then start Small Claim for: Charges + Interest on charges+ Court fee + 8% County Court interest.

Thats all you have to do.

[noomill060]

What do they have from the OFT?

[noomill060]

Look, I got the same run a round from them. there is no point trying to work it out with them.

They only thing they fear is a court room.

Read my SLC thread and follow the same steps I did. It worked a treat.

[noomill060]

Click here.

noomill v Student Loan Company ***WON***

[noomill060]

If you want to pursue their non compliance with your CCA request, just ring or write to Trading Standards.

[krysus]

Sorry, the didn't enclose anything from OFT, just their charges policy - to which they "have received confirmation that the charges applied are fair".

noomill - I understand all of the points you have mentioned previously, but...

Ok, so i do an LBA now for a refund of charges on the 'two' (really 3 loans, but 2 are amalgamated into 1) accounts. They remove the charges (+ interest on the charges?) from all the accounts - simple enough.

But my points are:

a) They have failed to provide a CCA for the single-loan account, removing the charges on this would leave a very small balance, which in another 30 days is unenforceable if they fail to provide CCA.

b) On the amalgamated account, they have only provided a CCA for the 2nd loan, hence in another 30 days, a portion (about 1/2) becomes unenforceable (again, if they can't come up with the CCA). Here's where it gets blurred...

The payments i've made have obviously gone to reducing the balance on the account, i.e both loans combined.

Now logically, they will argue that the payments are being applied to the earliest balance first, i.e. the one that they haven't provided a CCA for. I would argue that the payments should be pro-rata'd against each loan. So, at least that way if part of the account balance becomes unenforceable, the payments i've made have reduced some of the balance on the enforceable element. Make sense?

So.... what i really need to know is, if such a time comes where some of the balance is unenforceable, can i get that portion of the balance (inc. the interest charged on that portion) removed from the outstanding balance?

I understand the in's and out's of the implications of failing to provide a CCA, default, criminal after 40 days, need to explain why they failed to provide, etc... but i don't see the sense in claiming charges back on a debt which i won't acknowledge if they can't produce the CCA's.

[krysus]

Drafted this letter:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank-you for your letter dated nth July 2007, which I received on nth July 2007.

In my letter of nth June 2007, under s77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I requested true copies of the executed agreements relating to the above accounts. You have failed to provide the agreements on two of the accounts, 9AXXXXnnnnn and 9BXXXXnnnnn, and as such I do not acknowledge these alleged debts.

As loan 9CXXXXnnnnn is currently amalgamated with loan 9BXXXXnnnnn, for which you have failed to provide a true copy of the executed agreement, all of the alleged outstanding balances are still in dispute.

You are reminded again that you have a legal obligation to provide these documents and that your failure to comply with this request within 12 working days has rendered the agreements unenforceable. Should you still be in default after one further calendar month, I believe you will be guilty of a criminal act punishable by imprisonment and/or a level 4 fine in a Magistrates court.

For the avoidance of doubt, these accounts are still in dispute. Any attempt to enforce any debt alleged, will at this stage, be vigorously defended. As this is now under dispute, you are barred from taken any legal action while the dispute remains. While this dispute continues, I will suspend any payments to you.


Yours sincerely,


krysus

[noomill060]

I would have a think about making a combined complaint to the FOS

1) For their failure to comply with your s.78 requests

and

2) for your refund of charges plus interest.

(Whether or not you acknowlege the debt, it still exists. It may be unenforceable, but it still exists.)

[krysus]

Ok, i've let me actions against SLC slip recently, been far too busy...

Anyway, due to another thread, I looked again at the copies of my CCA agreements which they sent me.


Now one of them isn't countersigned by anyone, so am i correct in thinking that this loan is unenforceable? Had a letter off them today stating it's in arrears, blah blah, and would love to write back telling 'em to bu**er off! Is there a letter template anywhere for unenforceable CCA's?

Unfortunately, it's the one with the lowest balance!

[Another_Victime]

Same happened to me:

CCA not signed?

Still waiting on reply to my letter with interest:

THIS ACCOUNT IS IN DISPUTE

Notice of CCA 1974 Disclosure Offense Committed

Loan A/C Numbers:

Dear Sir / Madam,

You have not fully complied with my request on the 1st July to provide true copies of the original loan agreements for my account.

For the loan number X the following information from your copy is missing:

• Lender’s Signature
• My Address
• Rate of Interest per day
• Annual Percentage Rate (APR)

I attach a copy of the details you sent and refer you to Section 61 of the Act that has not been complied with:

Section 61 Signing of agreement
(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner

·Section 65 (1) an improperly executed agreement is enforceable on an order of the court only.


·Section 127 (3) the court shall not make an order under section 65 (1) if section 61(1) a signing of the agreements was not complied with.

Furthermore by not providing me with a true copy of this loan agreement you are in default and have committed a criminal offense as laid out in the act. You are also subject to a statutory fine should I wish to report you to the Trading Standards Authority.

I therefore refuse to acknowledge any amount owned under this loan agreement until a court orders me to.