Student Loans CCA

[tiglet]

Hi there

I'm sure there must be something on a thread somewhere that answers this, but I'm damned if I can find it.

I sent Honours a CCA request which they received at the beginning of March. They've now defaulted on the 12 working days and imagine my surprise this morning when I received:

"Dear Tiglet

Please find enclosed copies of your loan applications, which have been supplied by Student Loans Company.

Should you ahve any further questions etc."

Now, there are duly attached twoapplication forms, one of which is signed by me and one of which isn't.

Surely they failed to comply with my CCA request? If so, should I contact them or allow the 30 days to be up first.

[Gooders]

Tiglet,

Firstly damn! they sent you something!

They received my CCA request 20 Jan 07 and are as with you in default but since 8 March 07. I am now counting down the calander month required!! Roll on 8 April!!!!

Right back to your question:

Now, there are duly attached twoapplication forms, one of which is signed by me and one of which isn't.

Surely they failed to comply with my CCA request? If so, should I contact them or allow the 30 days to be up first.

As far as I am concerned application forms are not the agreements! The fact that 1 is unsigned is unbelievable!! I believe (AND PLEASE SOMEONE HELP IF THEY KNOW BETTER) that:

a) They are not examples of the "TRUE AGREEMENT" which you requested therefore they HAVE NOT supplied you the info as in the request

b) The one that is unsigned is "utterly utterly useless" (to quote some army jeezer) and proves nothing so again they are in default!

What would I do .....(for what it is worth)

1) I would write to them stating the section of the CCA legislation on what counts as a 'true agreement' and show the reasons why the rubbish they have sent does not comply

2) Re-enforce your RIGHT to this information within the ORIGINAL timescale

3)Give them the date (12 working days + 1 cal month) that you must be in receipt of this information.

4) Keep paying them

5) Take the B@ggers for all they are worth!!!

The best thread (sorry its a long one, but answers a few of your questions) is:
Consumer Credit Act Agreements

Hope this helps and please let me know how you get on, as I am in the same boat. If interested here is my thread for the 1 or 2 irons I have in the fire!!!

Gooders Vs LTSB & Others

Hope any, all of this helps!!

Gooders

[tiglet]

hmm, interesting question - my other half sent off for his CCA from the student loans company.

They did not provide a statement and only one of the three agreements have been signed by someone else, although they do have signatures from him.

Does this make them unenforceable?

[Gooders]

Right you need to read the ccathread I gave you above. As I am only going for memory here.

2 out of 3 are totally unenforceable! ie the ones that he has not signed...how could they enforce that????

The third may not be enforceable but you will need to go through it in relation to the CCA. There are so many things they must provide you with that I loose track!

Seems like you have a great case to at least reduce your loan by the UNSIGNED agreements

Gooders

[tiglet]

He's signed them but the student loans company hasn't - the 30 days aren't up yet, so I will spend time trawling through the CCA things before they are.

Thanks.

[Gooders]

Agreements have to be signed by both parties for them to be enforceable!!! So looks like a winner on that front. I too need to trawl through the CCA when/if I get my agreements from them as there are so many different requirements eg T&Cs, signatures, dates, cancellation rights, early release clauses that must be complied with that make the agreement unenforceable...(or might make it so) if they are not contained in the 'true copy' that they send you. Most importantly....(after it being signed and dated!!!) it MUST be easily legible!!!

By far the best is if they don't supply the required documents after 12 wds + 1 cal month then they have broken the law and you have control. The CCA thread I gave is really long but I have learnt a lot from people on there and it may be worth you starting a particular thread in that section asking for more help.

Gooders

[Gooders]

The buggers have replied which was a bit of a shock.

1 is unreadable. the other 3 I will check for their accurray in regards to the required info displayed

Not happy!!!!

[tiglet]

I'm even less happy.

Despite still not receiving my CCA's, HSL have sent me a default notice! Cheeky b******s. They're the one's who are in default, not me!

I spoke to them and was told my application forms were CCA's - I pointed out this was wrong. Smarmy lady says "Well, they have Consumer Credit Act 1974 written on them, don't they?" to which I replied "Well actually, no, they don't. But they do have a statement on there that if accepted, I would be sent 2 copies of the CCA to sign". She went very quiet and said she would look into it fo me.

Got a phonecall back from another lady, lets call her Mrs Shouty Incompetent, stating all sorts of totally random and incorrect things which have nothing to do with my CCA request:

Mrs I "you've only paid off £200"
T "no, paid off lots more than that, i reckon about £2k, but am waiting for my CCA to show me how much"

Mrs I "You have a CCJ for this account"
T "No, I haven't - and if I did, why would you be bothering to threaten me with a default?"

Mrs I "You've never deferred this loan"
T "No, because some muppet at SLC didn't bother updating my address in 2000 when I called to tell him I was moving and so I was told that I could never defer".

Mrs I "last time you paid the SLC was in 2003"
T "Yes, because that is when they sold it to you, despite the fact there were no arrears on the account. All payments went to you after this date."

Mrs Incompetent eventually said she would contact SLC with a view to complying with my CCA request but "once you've got it, I expect you to contact me within 14 days to arrange paying it off".

Obviously, I've filed a complaint with all relevant documentation with the OFT. Let's see what they have to say about it.

Furthermore, I'm sure lots of this "debt" is made up of charges - I think they believe I owe them about £1500 more than I actually do, leaving a balance of about £200.

But, of course, they don't seem to have the CCA ... and the fine from the OFT, should they decide to enforce it, would be about £2500.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear ...

[jackster77]

slc have gone very quiet re my loans for the moment as I said in my own post am going to fire them of a letter for non compliance

out of interest have you ben sent any deferment forms for this year yet
I havn't and I thought they came out round April time

[Gooders]

Jackster, I havent had a deferment notice for about 4 years which is my argument against charges and arrears

Gooders

[tiglet]

Well, they have sent me my CCA's. Both are totally illegible and only one is signed by the student loans company.

They also have given me a "breakdown" of fogures - the original value, what I have paid and the interest.

Interestingly, looking through all fo my paperwork, these figures do not add up. Will add this to the complaint to OFT.

[tiglet]

Long time since I updated this thread, so I thought I would let you guys know what's been going on.

In June, got a call from a company called penine. I advised I was still waiting for my CCA request to be complied with. They said they would get back to HSL. Never heard another thing.

In August, I got a letter from a company called Clarity. I telephoned them (I know) and told them the situation and they said they would get back in contact with HSL. I didn't hear another thing until I got a call from them last week, from a very obnoxious man who had obviously failed his charm school. I was so angry that I sent off the following complaint:

Dear Sir/Madam

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

I am writing to you in order to invoke your complaints procedure regarding the actions of your company and in particular a member of your staff who telephoned me this afternoon, shortly prior to 3pm. This is regards an alleged debt your company wishes to discuss with me in regards to Honours Student Loans. Please regard this as an official complaint.

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with Honours Student loans and has been since 23rd February 2007. Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the CCA 74.

As Honours Student Loans are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, I consider this account to be in serious dispute.

As you are aware, while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. This breach was reported to Kent Trading Standards in June 2007 and I intend to report them again for the further breaches which have been committed by continuing to use your company for Debt Collection purposes on this account.

I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Honours Student Loans for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Clarity Credit Management Solutions Ltd cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

Furthermore, the operative from your company this afternoon has made further breaches of OFT guidelines on debt collection and the Data Protection Act which I also wish to complain about. I made contemporous notes of the conversation and will detail my notes on the conversation and my complaints about it below:

CCM Operative: “Can I speak to Tiglet (by first name) please?”

Me: “Speaking.”


CCM Operative: “It’s (did not catch name, but was male) from Clarity calling regards your Honours Student Loans debt. For security purposes can you confirm your Date of Birth and first line of address?”

Me: “I’m sorry, but I don’t give out security details on the phone, especially if I don’t know the company involved.”

CCM Operative: “You’ve spoken to us lots of times before.”

Me: “No I haven’t, I don’t know who you are.”

CCM Operative: “Yes you have, you’ve spoken to us loads of times.”

Me: “When?”

Pause

CCM Operative: “You spoke to us on 23rd August.”

Me: “I don’t remember that, but I have had several phonecalls with messages …”

CCM Operative: “Yes you did. You wanted us to send you some information, but I’ll just send someone round instead now. Goodbye.”

(The call was ended at this point).

I have subsequently recalled contacting a Debt Collection Agency which sent me a letter during the summer months (which may well be yourselves) and I advised of the situation with HSL and the fact the account was in dispute.

The conversation and this debt collection action clearly contravenes the following OFT guidelines on debt-collection in the following ways:

2.5 e, “Making threatening statements or gestures which suggest harm to debtors” i.e. “I’ll send someone round instead now”

2.5 f, “Disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified claims for payment” i.e. contacting me in regards to this account when, by your operatives own admission, contact was made in August 2007, advising of the dispute with HSL.

2.8 i, “Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued” i.e. contacting me in regards to this account when, by your operatives own admission, contact was made in August 2007, advising of the dispute with HSL.

2.8 k, “Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt” i.e. contacting me in regards to this account when, by your operatives own admission, contact was made in August 2007, advising of the dispute with HSL.

2.12 a, “Not making the purpose of the proposed visit clear, for example, merely stating that collectors or field agents will call is not sufficient” i.e. “I’ll just send someone round instead”.


2.12f, “Visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the debt is deadlocked or disputed” i.e. advising that your company will “just send someone round” in regards to this account when, by your operatives own admission, contact was made in August 2007, advising of the dispute with HSL

I intend to report these breaches to both the OFT and Trading Standards tomorrow and would welcome your swift investigation into these breaches.

There is also the breach of the Data Protection Act committed by your operative. Before even asking me for security details, he advised me of your company name, the account he wished to discuss and the fact that it was a debt. He then also gave details about the account (the fact that prior contact had been made) and the fact that I could expect a visit from someone after I had declined to confirm security information. This is clearly a breach, where “personal information about you is used, held or disclosed without proper security”.

I intend to report this breach to the Information Commissioner’s Office tomorrow and I would also welcome your swift investigation into this breach.

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only. I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you may be liable to a substantial fine.

Please be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded or contemporous notes taken.

Please also be advised OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

Therefore take note that I revoke license under Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending “doorstep callers” to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless.

If Clarity Credit Management Solutions Ltd chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished and I look forward to a swift and satisfactory response to my complaint within the timescales laid down within your complaints procedure. If this does not happen, I will have no option but to ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to investigate further.

Yours Faithfully

Tiglet

I received the following letter this morning:

Dear Mrs Tiglet

Thank you for your email of 14th January.

We atke all complaints seriously and as such I have personally investigated the points you have raised.

We have contacted our clients regarding your request for original documentation of the loan and they have confirmed this information has been forwarded to you several times. They therefore do not consider this account to be in dispute.

I have listened to a recording of the telephone conversation you had with one of our advisors on 14th January 2008 and this, together with any action we have taken, in my opinion, does not contravene the OFT Debt Collection guidelines.

It is important that we come to a mutually satisfactory arrangement regarding the settlement of this account and I therefore ask you to contact us on 0870 609 3274 as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Ron Morrell (pp-ed)

Well, what do you make of that lovely folks and what advice do you ahve? i still do not have legible, signed copies of the CCA - if they ahve them, why will they not forward them onto me? I was also thinking of asking for a copy of this recording so that i can use it should I ever need to?

Thoughts please ...

[rory32]

Thread moved to Students Forum.

[tiglet]

Thanks