£525 in charges on £431 of overdraft!

[beercan]

Hi guys, first post here, so please bear with me if I haven't found my feet.

I have smile breathing down my neck for a total balance of £956.30.

Of that, £525 is charges broken down as follows:

21/07/05 commission - unpaid item £20
03/08/05 commission £20

18/08/05 commission - unpaid item £20

22/08/05 service charge £15
22/08/05 daily excess charge £30
22/08/05 commission - unpaid item £40

01/09/05 commission - unpaid item £20

21/09/05 service charge £15
21/09/05 daily excess charge £120 !!!

21/10/05 service charge £15
21/10/05 daily excess charge £150 !!!

10/01/06 commission - correspondence £60

Total: £525.00

They have frozen all transactions on the account but are still charging interest, and they want a £20 p/m repayment agreement put in place.

I have no objections repaying the outstanding £431.30 - which includes the interest on the account as it's not worth the hassle of figuring out which bit is for charges and which bit is from my spending.

However I want to try and get the £525 removed.

How much do you guys think they will clear?
Is it worth me phoning/messaging them first and asking them to clear it?

Thanks
Steve

[Bookworm]

Sorry, what do you mean by "clear"? How much they'll remove spontaneously if you ask nicely? Well, not all of it, that's for sure...

If you pursue them the right way, though, the lot... And 8% on top if you have to issue claim court...

Read the FAQs thoroughly, understand why you do what you do, then go for it.

Phone them? Well, sure, if you enjoy the ritual humiliation of going cap in hand to beg for what's rightfully yours...

[sunseeker]

Hi beercan

Don't bother messaging them. I sent Data Protection Act request letter first, they sent secure message stating receipt then they deleted this message.

As you know the amount, send letter before action giving them 14 days to credit the said amount to your account. If no action fothcoming, go for them through the county court. I would probably phone them 7 days after sending letter to request what they are doing about it and do they realise they have 7 days before you commence legal action.
That said, I have regularly sent secure messages and contacted them by phone. They will mention that they go on this website and that the charges are in the T&Cs. I just said that I wasn't questioning the charges as such, it was the level of the charges. I said £3 seemed reasonable to me, not £25 per e-mail!
Called them again today and have had a refund confirmed by them of over £2,000. Just needs to be authorised by a Senior Manager then value will be credited to my account.

Keep at it, don't let them keep putting you off and be firm but fair in all communication with them. It's your money, they know that, and eventually you will get it back.

all the best.

[beercan]

Thanks for the replies.

I've just had them phone me again about setting up a payment plan so I asked about the charges.

She went straight in with the standard "you signed the contract to say you'd pay any charges" so I simply said that I was not questioning the charges, but the level of the charges, feeling it was unreasonable that they have charged me what they have.

She offered to remove the £60 charge as a "gesture of goodwill" and said that the matter of charges was being looked into by the bank and the outcome would be known in May. I asked if that meant they would refuse to remove the charges until then pending the outcome, at which point she totally changed and offered to speak to her manager then call me back.

When she calls back if it's with an offer - say 50% what should I say?

I am prepared to pay a reasonable portion of costs, but it would be determining what these should be.

[Bovvered]

Depends on whether you think getting half back is reasonable or not - bearing in mind it costs around 30p for the stamp they stick on the letter generated by their computer to tell you they are charging you £30...

If you want them to have half your money, that's up to you...

[beercan]

Well interestingly she's just phoned back and said she cannot get to speak to her manager so she's willing to refund me £225 immediately.

I told her I wished to review the figure before I accepted that I was happy with that, and that I would get back to her.

As a parting sentence after my goodbye she said "I'm going to process that refund for you anyway sir".

So that's just over half of it back, which indicates to me they don't want any trouble...

So now I guess I send the letter (edited) demanding the remainder of the money?
I'm not happy getting half back, I want all but the costs to them.

[Bookworm]

Then go for it. My advice is write straight away to say thanks for the 1/2, but it is by no means a full and final settlement. Just in case.

[beercan]

Ideal. Will do tonight.

[beercan]

Is this too long? Should I send the top bit then the standard letter separately?

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ********, SORT CODE: **/**/**


Further to the phone call between myself and ***** ***** today at 1.50pm, I would like to thank you for the offer of removing £225 of the £525 of charges on my account. However, I feel that this is insufficient as there will remain £300 of charges on the account.

Whilst I do not dispute the reason for the charges, I do dispute their amounts.

Below is a breakdown of the charges you have made against my account since July 2005:

21/07/05 commission - unpaid item £20
03/08/05 commission £20

18/08/05 commission - unpaid item £20

22/08/05 service charge £15
22/08/05 daily excess charge £30
22/08/05 commission - unpaid item £40

01/09/05 commission - unpaid item £20

21/09/05 service charge £15
21/09/05 daily excess charge £120

21/10/05 service charge £15
21/10/05 daily excess charge £150

10/01/06 commission - correspondence £60

Total: £525.00

I feel these charges do not fairly reflect the losses you have suffered for the overdrawn balance and period of time of overdrawing.

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I calculate that you have taken £525.00 plus interest which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken.

I require repayment in full of this money within 14 days. If you do not comply fully then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus my costs and without further notice.

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit license under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.



Yours faithfully,

[sunseeker]

I would personnaly leave out the final paragraph if it were me. At least you got some of it back before having to resort to 'letter before action' and the threat of court action should be enough for now.

Can always use the threat later if they don't comply or once judgement is made against them.

[beercan]

Thankyou.

[matlow]

Originally Posted by beercan

Is this too long? Should I send the top bit then the standard letter separately?

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ********, SORT CODE: **/**/**


Further to the phone call between myself and ***** ***** today at 1.50pm, I would like to thank you for the offer of removing £225 of the £525 of charges on my account. However, I feel that this is insufficient as there will remain £300 of charges on the account.

Whilst I do not dispute the reason for the charges, I do dispute their amounts.

Below is a breakdown of the charges you have made against my account since July 2005:

21/07/05 commission - unpaid item £20
03/08/05 commission £20

18/08/05 commission - unpaid item £20

22/08/05 service charge £15
22/08/05 daily excess charge £30
22/08/05 commission - unpaid item £40

01/09/05 commission - unpaid item £20

21/09/05 service charge £15
21/09/05 daily excess charge £120

21/10/05 service charge £15
21/10/05 daily excess charge £150

10/01/06 commission - correspondence £60

Total: £525.00

I feel these charges do not fairly reflect the losses you have suffered for the overdrawn balance and period of time of overdrawing.

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I calculate that you have taken £525.00 plus interest which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken.

I require repayment in full of this money within 14 days. If you do not comply fully then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus my costs and without further notice.

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit license under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.



Yours faithfully,

Sent the same sort of letter,from the library section and they paid up within two weeks

[Bookworm]

Remove the bit about not disputing the charges, but the amount. By keeping it, you're giving them the chance to drag it out by bartering.

They could have charged you a fair amount, and you cdn't have done anything about it. They grossly overcharged, rendering the charges unlawful, now they have to pay 100% back, especially as they won't disclose their costs. Tough luck.

I disagree with above poster, keep that last bit in, it's actually a very useful sentence, it shows an angle the banks wil not be happy with. And if it's good enough for the Govan Law Center (who 1st pointed it out to us), it's good enough for me.

[beercan]

thanks.

[sunseeker]

Bookworm

Just thought that at least there is some give from Smile given some of the recent posts....probably more than others and that the option of requesting reasonably without threats may make them less likely to dig their heels in.

I know that if my £2k plus is only part settlement then I'm still going to go for the full amount

I suppose each case on it's individual merits but can understand the hard tactics if neccessary (see my CitiCard post).

[beercan]

I've been in two minds about it too.
MAybe the softly softly first part of the letter first and see if that works...