This is the email I am going to send to my MP...... if anyone has anything that they think I should change or add please say:)

Dear Mr Ollerenshaw,

I am hoping that you can help with this situation.

I requested that my review assessment be recorded as is my right according to the announcement made by Chris Grayling in a private members debate on 12/02/2012, on my questionnaire sent by ATOS. When I received my appt for 03/07/2012 there was no mention of it being recorded. I rang the appointments line at ATOS only to be told it had not been requested, the ATOS employee said he would email the relevant dept and that they would be in touch. I waited a couple of days and rang at the end of last week to check if the appointment would be recorded as the date is getting closer. I was given the telephone number of the relevant department who I contacted immediately to be told that the equipment needed was not available on that date and that it would probably be August before it was, I asked if the appointment for 03/07/2012 had been cancelled and was told it was, I then asked for written confirmation and was told a letter would be sent.

I received a letter dated 20/06/2012 which in my opinion stated the opposite of what I had been told it reads:

Dear Mrs xxxxx,

I have received your request to obtain an audio recording of your medical assessment.

Unfortunately we are unable to provide this service at present.

Therefore your appointment on 3rd July 2012 will not be audio recorded.

Yours sincerely,

xxxxx xxxxx

This was the only information in the envelope I was not furnished with a reason for ATOS being unable to record the appointment or any options open to me, it basically says you will attend the appointment and we are not recording it.

I rang them straight away and informed them that I wished that the appointment be recorded and asked why the appointment had not been cancelled to be told that it had and again I asked for written confirmation of the cancellation being made due to their inability to provide a service that are supposed to, as I did not want it to be put down as the 1 and only cancellation that I am allowed to make, before sanctions are made against my claim.

I had not received the requested letter yesterday and as the date of the appointment is early next week I emailed the person who had sent the above letter yet again requesting confirmation, I have not as yet received even an acknowledgement of receipt. So this morning I rang the ESA and informed them of the problems and failure of ATOS to deal with the matter and asked them to put on record that I had not cancelled the appointment. I then rang ATOS and asked again if the appointment had been cancelled to be told yes and so had the one they had made for 17/07/2012, which surprised me as I had no idea about that appointment. Again I asked for written verification of the cancellations, I was told no they don't do that.

There are flaws in the benefit system, one of them being these assessments. In my first assessment I was deemed fit for work in 3 months, the report was full of contradictions, wrong information, missed evidence that the assessor was furnished with, I appealed the decision and had it overturned before it reached Tribunal and put in WRAG. When I got my second questionnaire I filled it in and sent in medical evidence of my condition from my health professionals. I suffer from Rheumatoid arthritis and COPD, neither condition curable only manageable with medication. My mobility issues have worsened, I still have fatigue issues etc, so knowing this I am surprised that I have to waste government resources going through this process again. Hence the reason for asking for my assessment to be recorded.

The questions I would like answered are:

1. Why it is acceptable for ATOS to refuse to provide written confirmation of appointments that can not be carried out due to them not being able to provide a service that the Government have openly announced they will for anyone who requests it?
   
2. Why have the government/DWP/ATOS not publicized the availability of Audio recording within the media? They are very quick to make use of the media to bring bad light on benefit claimants, but have failed to do this in this case.
   
3. Why do the DWP/ATOS not include the option of audio recording in the medical questionnaire and leaflet WCA AL1C 04/11 which is enclosed with the assessment appointments?
   
4. Is there truth in the rumour that the right to have a WCA audio recorded is going to be withdrawn in the near future? If so why?
   
5. Why do the Government think that an ATOS "Healthcare Professional" has the knowledge and common sense to know what a claimant is capable of doing more than the professional NHS Doctors, Consultants etc that deal with them on a regular basis?
   

I look forward to a reply at your earliest convenience.

Personally I do ask a lot of questions but find that the answers keep changing so even if I could afford to keep ringing, cannot guarantee I would get the correct answers...I have lost count of the times I have been given the runaround too!!

It may be apathy on behalf of some but low self esteem (amongst many things) may accompany being on benefits and that is not exactly condusive to wanting to keep ringing and asking...neither is the phone bill or the cost of post now!!

informing your mp is going to in my experience be less than useless....and mines a labour man...he was totally useless...unable and unwilling to get involved....they are going to remove this 'right' due to lack of demand....yet nowhere in any phone calls or letters do they happen to mention that 'you can have the session recorded' we have to keep pushing for this to be allowed, but i fear that it may soon be removed

My MP will send letters but she makes it clear in the letters she sends the concern is mine and not hers. That then puts a lot less clout to those letters as she is then not putting her status behind it.

TBH I don't really expect much but thought I would see what happens, I am at a stage like reallymadwoman is where I will go all out to get this brought forward.....

It was a last resort. Again you make assumptions, not everyone has family around them to help. The fact you dont understand also makes me wonder why you even commenting.

 

How many MPs would disagree with this.

 

DWP refusing to provide a fax number to send in documents.

It isn't normal to provide a fax number. It isn't normal to provide an email address either.

Most people (and it is policy) that documents are sent in through the post.

 

DWP refusing to cooperate on making a new appointment.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by this. If you are talking about an appointment relating to an assessment, would that not be the responsibilty of ATOS? If however you are talking about making an appointment for a re-assessment following a deterioration in your health, that should be carried out via the post or telephone with the DWP - BDC.

 

DWP refusing to forward call to BDC.

BDC is the DWP in all cases relating to ESA.

 

DWP reading out wrong postcode tothe MP then claiming it was never wrong. I wonder how many MP's would say that was right.

Mistakes do happen!

 

MPs even have direct lines to the DWP because they there to help with these sort of situations its also why welfare rights will advise people to goto their MPs when normal channels fail to work. You seemeither misled or deliberatly intimidating to make things seem what they are not. The fact you refuse to believe the 70% success rate means you dont really have an open unbiased mind on this.

Most if not all MP's contact the BDC manager by post. It would be very unusual for an MP to telephone him without any previous history between themselves.

I only quote what are facts, and my opinions are based on my workings within the Civil Service. I try to see both sides of the argument - you have to consider how the DWP see things as well as how you see them. Unfortunately people see what is happening to them and totally disregard the pressures that the DWP are under at the moment - they are not miracle workers.

The 70% figure I will leave open, as of yet I haven't had the chance to examine the stats.

Whats your answer as to when the evidence is sent, and the same evidence used for appeal and the decision is overturned, or are you refusing to believe that happens?

 

Is there a reason the DWP cant request furrther evidence if they believe the condition qualifies but isnt backed up by enough evidence.

 

Isnt that what the assessment is for to verify conditions people are putting on ESA50's?

 

holes in your line of thought.

 

If someome turns up to a medical, and then gets the ruling overturned then that doesnt say much for the ATOS process.

Certainly not. Two people can legitimately have two differing opinions on the same evidence. It doesn't mean to say that one is wrong and the other is right. They just differ in their interpretation of it.

The DWP are not responsible for obtaining evidence to back up or prove your entitlement. They will seek sufficient evidence that they believe is enough to make a decision on a claim.

The responsibility of providing evidence rests clearly on the claimant.

I think you have the role of ATOS & the DWP confused. They are not there to verify what you have put on the ESA50. ATOS's role is to provide evidence to the DWP as to whether you 'pass' any of the descriptors and how many points should be awarded for that 'pass'.

The ATOS assessment is just one bit of evidence that the DWP will use, they will use what you have put on your ESA50 AND more importantly what medical evidence and reports you have submitted with the ESA50. Based on the balance of probabilities, the DWP Decision Maker will then decide.

As I have said, there are many reasons why a Tribunal decision can overturn the original DWP one. It just doesn't follow that the DWP's decision was wrong.

Certainly not. Two people can legitimately have two differing opinions on the same evidence. It doesn't mean to say that one is wrong and the other is right. They just differ in their interpretation of it.

 

The DWP are not responsible for obtaining evidence to back up or prove your entitlement. They will seek sufficient evidence that they believe is enough to make a decision on a claim.

The responsibility of providing evidence rests clearly on the claimant.

 

I think you have the role of ATOS & the DWP confused. They are not there to verify what you have put on the ESA50. ATOS's role is to provide evidence to the DWP as to whether you 'pass' any of the descriptors and how many points should be awarded for that 'pass'.

 

The ATOS assessment is just one bit of evidence that the DWP will use, they will use what you have put on your ESA50 AND more importantly what medical evidence and reports you have submitted with the ESA50. Based on the balance of probabilities, the DWP Decision Maker will then decide.

 

As I have said, there are many reasons why a Tribunal decision can overturn the original DWP one. It just doesn't follow that the DWP's decision was wrong.

The more I read the more I wonder what you saying, your posts directly contradict everything I have heard from other sources.

When ATOS provide an opinion, it is rarely set aside for other evidence, whilst you make it sound like its treated along with other evidence as equal. Even that harrington guy made a comment on it saying it was weighted too heavily. The ESA50 is returned to ATOS directly, so the DWP dont even see it until ATOS have looked it over.

The problem is that people go to atos unprepared thinking the system is fair. It is not fair. You are asked a few questions and all answers are based on this. This is particularly true of mental health claimants. Even if you lived next door to the centre you would be penalized for going alone.

and they listen to amianne maybe who is telling us all its fair.

If someone appears to be contradicting absolutely everything that everyone else contributes and at the same time is not being at all helpful, then why respond and encourage more of the same?

The more I read the more I wonder what you saying, your posts directly contradict everything I have heard from other sources.

 

When ATOS provide an opinion, it is rarely set aside for other evidence, whilst you make it sound like its treated along with other evidence as equal. Even that harrington guy made a comment on it saying it was weighted too heavily. The ESA50 is returned to ATOS directly, so the DWP dont even see it until ATOS have looked it over.

All you have to do is read the Decision Makers Handbook which does say exactly what I have quoted. The ATOS assessment is only part of the evidence that the Decision Maker can use. Or maybe you think their own manual is wrong and the DM's are not following it's instructions? If you have evidence of this you should be reporting the matter to the DWP.

and they listen to amianne maybe who is telling us all its fair.

No it isn't always fair. But as Mattho has said, people go into these assessments with the wrong idea.

That isn't the fault of the system or the DWP or ATOS, that is down to the claimant for not properly understanding what the processes are. If they have difficulty understanding them, then they should seek help - it's all printed on the ESA50!

If someone appears to be contradicting absolutely everything that everyone else contributes and at the same time is not being at all helpful, then why respond and encourage more of the same?

Yes, quite......

No it isn't always fair. But as Mattho has said, people go into these assessments with the wrong idea.

 

That isn't the fault of the system or the DWP or ATOS, that is down to the claimant for not properly understanding what the processes are. If they have difficulty understanding them, then they should seek help - it's all printed on the ESA50!

We needed a specialist report for a different matter, it took 9 weeks to get to us....we get sent ESA50 forms with tight deadlines so it is not always possible to give what has not arrived and, yes, the Report was chased up....

The Specialist was an expert in her field and would lend the required weight to the information as she is treating my husband..but things cannot be rushed......

In my personal case I mentioned that I was awaiting appointments that could not be brought forward and then took letters with me to the WCA....

NHS etc go at their own pace and that is also a factor that is not always recognised.

And the help is not always out there these days for those who really need it.....

If only we had the back up for those in true need...

All you have to do is read the Decision Makers Handbook which does say exactly what I have quoted. The ATOS assessment is only part of the evidence that the Decision Maker can use. Or maybe you think their own manual is wrong and the DM's are not following it's instructions? If you have evidence of this you should be reporting the matter to the DWP.

The decision makers guide isn't always true though. The decision makers guide and DWP both say that if I use an aid, I won't have problems. No aids work and they never will do.

No it isn't always fair. But as Mattho has said, people go into these assessments with the wrong idea.

 

That isn't the fault of the system or the DWP or ATOS, that is down to the claimant for not properly understanding what the processes are. If they have difficulty understanding them, then they should seek help - it's all printed on the ESA50!

Where in the ESA50 is it stated that a claimant has the right to have their assessment recorded? In fact where in any DWP/ATOS leaflets or documentation is that openly printed?

Where in the ESA50 is it stated that a claimant has the right to have their assessment recorded? In fact where in any DWP/ATOS leaflets or documentation is that openly printed?

It doesn't. Even though claimants have been able to have their assessments recorded for over 6 months, they still haven't got around to telling them either that they can or how to request it.

See this post for a full explanation :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336827-Announcement-ESA-claimants-now-have-the-option-of-having-their-WCA-recorded&p=3889707&viewfull=1#post3889707

Where in the ESA50 is it stated that a claimant has the right to have their assessment recorded? In fact where in any DWP/ATOS leaflets or documentation is that openly printed?

It isn't! Much the same that from 2008 until March 2011 it was actively frowned upon and discouraged if you thought about sending any supporting evidence in with the ESA50.

Then in March 2011 they decided that it might be appropriate to send the evidence in so they amended the ESA50 to state that!

As I have said, I would imagine that we are currently in a 'trial period' to assess how many recorded assessments are carried out as against unrecorded ones. If the majority of assessments are recorded, then no doubt they will make it official policy at some time in the future. Obviously if the figure of recorded assessments is small by comparison, then it is likely that the option will cancelled.

From my research there is no binding regulation that a recorded assessment is an option. It is a concession at the moment.

Legislation, rules and regulations evolve over time.

It isn't! Much the same that from 2008 until March 2011 it was actively frowned upon and discouraged if you thought about sending any supporting evidence in with the ESA50.

Then in March 2011 they decided that it might be appropriate to send the evidence in so they amended the ESA50 to state that!

 

As I have said, I would imagine that we are currently in a 'trial period' to assess how many recorded assessments are carried out as against unrecorded ones. If the majority of assessments are recorded, then no doubt they will make it official policy at some time in the future. Obviously if the figure of recorded assessments is small by comparison, then it is likely that the option will cancelled.

 

From my research there is no binding regulation that a recorded assessment is an option. It is a concession at the moment.

 

Legislation, rules and regulations evolve over time.

They have already run a trial which has already been discussed on this forum. How can they run a trial if all ESA claimants are not aware of it in the first place? IMHO, If more were informed and had already gone through the ATOS experience once already they would opt for a recording to ensure the accuracy of the information reported by the HCP.

They have already run a trial which has already been discussed on this forum. How can they run a trial if all ESA claimants are not aware of it in the first place? IMHO, If more were informed and had already gone through the ATOS experience once already they would opt for a recording to ensure the accuracy of the information reported by the HCP.

A trial - 600???? Compare that to the numbers that actually have an assessment in just one week.

It took the government 5 years to actively suggest to claimants that they could in fact submit supporting evidence in with a claim! And you are seriously suggesting that a trial at that level and that it has only been 12 months since it was carried out should result in a revision to the ESA50?

How long did it take for people to realise that evidence could be sent in in the pre March 2011 period? I never knew it could, it was never actively encouraged was it?

I, my family and mant others that I know, believed that it was against the rules to send in anything except the ESA50.

Being ignorant of something is not the fault of the DWP or ATOS. You wouldn't get very far if you used that excuse in an application for a backdaing of a benefit.

The claimant must take all steps needed to ensure that he or she is aquainted in full, with their rights.

Or are you one that actively promotes that the government should hold everyone's hands and guide them through everything - a nanny state?

 

Or are you one that actively promotes that the government should hold everyone's hands and guide them through everything - a nanny state?

No I am one that expects the people elected to ensure that the people, who affectedly put them in the role they are in, are informed of any rule changes they make. We are expected to inform them through the relevant depts of any changes in our circumstances.

May I politely suggest that you think carefully about what you post before you post it as some of your comments I have found to be very unsupportive of this thread. They belong in the Bear Garden when things can be discussed openly, not on a thread meant for advice and support.

amianne, I'm getting a little confused here. I've been claiming ESA since the end of 2009. I've completed three ESA50s in that time. The first one, in 2009, requested supporting medical evidence to be included. As did the one in 2010. As did the one in 2011 ...

May I politely suggest that you think carefully about what you post before you post it as some of your comments I have found to be very unsupportive of this thread. They belong in the Bear Garden when things can be discussed openly, not on a thread meant for advice and support.

Ditto

It never ceases to amaze me.

The govt decide you have a right to a recorded medical but do not advise you anywhere in their literature that this is your right, so by definition nobody actually officially knows........

Then they say they are going to withdraw it because no one is asking for it. It could only happen in this country.

Everyone now needs to stand firm and insist on a recording, it will cause mayhem at ATOS. If the word could be got out into everyday scenarios that you have this right they will have no chance of meeting their targets and getting their bonus, now wouldn't that be a shame.....

Maybe we could all have a whip round:lol:

Everyone now needs to stand firm and insist on a recording, it will cause mayhem at ATOS.

Everyone needs to pass the word around on this a.s.a.p.

I have been searching on Facebook for a group relevant to these issues and there does not appear to be any:(

I have shared the info on my wall, would be good if everyone does that.