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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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ESA appeal issue


Nothericher100
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Hi I hope finally I might actually get a answer here as speaking to the DWP has left me frustrated

 

Here whats happened, hopefully someone out there can point me in the right direction

 

Back In November I received a letter saying that my ESA had been terminated as I had not attended a work assessment In mid October and I had not contacted the DWP to explain why I had not attend the assessment,

 

I contacted the DWP to explain that I had not received any corespondence from them probably due to the postal strike

I was advised to send a letter explaining the situation and a decision will be made quickly

 

a few days later the appointment letter for the appointment I missed turned up and the letter asking me why I had missed the appointment followed by an earlier ESA letter dated early September, I contacted DWP that the letter had arrived, I was advised to wait for a responce

 

week 2

 

2 weeks later I contacted the DWP, when I explained the situation that I had no money coming in a 3 children look after they told me that it usually takes a week for a responce, I politely told the operator that actually a fortnight had passed only to be told "well delays can happen" and "I don't know what you expect me to do" being slightly shocked I ended the call

 

week 3

A letter came explaining my letter had been received and they would look into the matter

 

week 4

 

now a month passed

I contacted the Dwp imediately and told them that a month had passed and finances were critical, I was advised that I would just have to wait

 

 

week 8

 

just before christmas I phoned again only to be told I will have to wait till up till the 24th of January before I would be informed if I could get ESA,

3 months from when my ESA was stopped,

at this point I have received balliff letters and other legal chargeable letters as I an not able to pay bills. the advisor tells me that I should sign on as unemployed and that I should ask the social fund for a loan (as far as I know I would need a income to repay a loan?)this is not a option as im disabled and housebound and when I phoned the Job centre they advised me I could not do this as I am unable to seek employment

 

My partner contacted C.A.B they advised her that once my appeal letter had arrived my benefits should have been reinstated and a decision should be made by the appeals section If I am still entitled or not on the Appeal date but I do not know if this is correct or not.

 

so Should I be receiving benefit or not? I have not received any benefit since Mid october, is signing on as unemployed my only option even though I'm clearly unfit to work?

I have been told to wait days weeks and months after each phone call

 

I am now waiting for a visit from the balliffs as I can not even offer them a minimum payment

 

I hope someone might explain what my next step should be

 

Thanks for looking

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Phew, nothe, that's quite a post. I can't help you with the DWP specifics but I'm sure someone will be along tomorrow.

As far as I know a crisis / social fund loan does not need an income as such and is repaid minimally from benefits. If you have no money at all it beggars belief as to how you're surviving! It can't be easy.

As for the bailiffs there is a very good forum on this site for that issue. Go to:

 

Bailiffs and Sheriff Officers - The Consumer Forums

 

and start a new thread [the buttons at the bottom left of the page].

Post as much detail as you can - no personal details as bailiffs tend to read it too. Name of the firm is fine, how much, what for - is it a court fine, council tax etc - as different rules may apply. Tell us a little about yourself. What is your disability and why are you housebound [just general details]. It's useful.

You will get a lot of help and I'll post some things that may be of use to you - though, to be fair, I'm not likely to be on line again before the evening.

Take care and I hope you get advice about the DWP.

Rae.

Edited by RaeUK
typoo
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Phew, nothe, that's quite a post. I can't help you with the DWP specifics but I'm sure someone will be along tomorrow.

As far as I know a crisis / social fund loan does not need an income as such and is repaid minimally from benefits. If you have no money at all it beggars belief as to how you're surviving! It can't be easy.

 

Rae.

I know its a long post but I wanted to put enough details down,

 

I know it's not the DWPs fault that there was a postal strike but its not my fault either

 

The way I have survived is by using my credit card but even that option is not possible now as I can't use the cards until I make a payment,

 

re Crisis loan/Social fund as I stands I would not be even able to make a minimal repayment as I don't have an income coming in

 

until I lost my job due to my health I did not realise how much some genuine people on benefits get treated like second class citizens, At no stage have I even raised my voice or verbally abused advisors, If I had spoken to customers the way a few (not all are rude) of the DWP employees and Housing Benefits advisors have spoken to me I would have been disiplined.

 

Sorry for the long rant but to be honest with you I don't know what I would do if I didn't get this off my chest

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Hi,

Although different circumstances, from my experience, when you call the DWP it's hit and miss whether you get the right info. With me, it was usually miss. I spent about 7 or 8 weeks calling these people, being given conflicting information and advice until I said I wanted to make a formal complaint and insisted that I was called by the Manager (stay very calm when you do this). After speaking to the Manager, everything was sorted out very quickly.

Don't be fobbed off. They wont put you through to a manager, but will take a request that you be called. If you don't get a call in 24 hours call again (and again).

I'm sure you'll also get a lot of help from the members of this forum. They were the only light in my little dark tunnel last week.

All the best.

BG

Edited by brighton gal
typo
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Yes it is correct that when an appeal is acknowledged, ESA should be paid at the assessment rate until a final determination on the appeal is made. However it is not clear if you have actually appealed the decision or simply sent a letter explaining the situation.

 

You can still apply for a Crisis Loan for living expenses, repayments would be deferred until you have an income, if you do begin to receive benefit repayments would be paid via dedcution from your benefit. If you apply for a Crisis Loan, they can actually help you get your ESA, because Crisis Loans should not be paid when benefit is due. Therefore if you should be receiving benefit, the Crisis Loan officer will liaise with the ESA section to sort this out for you.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Yes it is correct that when an appeal is acknowledged, ESA should be paid at the assessment rate until a final determination on the appeal is made. However it is not clear if you have actually appealed the decision or simply sent a letter explaining the situation.

 

 

Just to clarify one thing - ESA is paid during an appeal only if the appeal relates to a points failure of the WCA. It is not payable if the customer has failed to attend the medical, as this is regarded as noncompliance with the terms of the benefit.

 

Presumably what the original poster is hoping to do is show good cause for failure to attend. This would go to the decision makers as a request for a reconsideration, rather than an appeal. Each BDC has its own timescale for these, but 8 weeks does sound like rather a long time. If good cause is accepted, ESA will be reinstated and arrears paid.

 

I think you are spot on with your suggestion that the OP contacts the Social Fund for a crisis loan. I occasionally deal with their processors, as they will indeed call us if there is a question that ESA might be due, and this can sometimes speed up the process.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hi, im in a similar situation. I have just filied an appeal.

 

When should i expect to get paid? and will i get back dated from when it stopped? (obviously with doctors paper covering that period)

 

any responce will be apprecited:-)

 

thanks

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Hi welshgirl. If you start a new thread on the subject, you'll get a better response that's custom to your case.

 

Are you appealing on the grounds of not enough points on the medical or did you not attend a medical? The benefit is only payable at the assessment rate on appeal if you are appealing against the result of the medical (i.e not enough points to qualify for ESA). If you didn't attend the medical, benefit is not payable on appeal.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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my advice is get some help from a Disability Advocate, C.A.B, I had no help what so ever from the benefits agency until an advocate got involved, once they got involved my benefits were reinstated the next day

thankfully my situation is sorted out, i had the medical which put me as unfit for work

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