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    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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Liability Personal Gurantee ~ Screwfix Direct


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Hi Peter

 

I realise that this is quite an old post, but I have recently received the very same letter from screw fix solicitors with the same guarantee wording signed by me. Could you let me know how you got on with your defence as I am about to reply using the wording given in reply to your post.

 

Many thanks

 

Nick

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Hi,

 

I am new to the forum and discovered this site whilst looking for advice. I received a letter this morning from solicitors chasing an unpaid account which related to a company I was previously a Director of. They enclosed a copy of the credit application form which I had signed back in 2009 and stated that I was personally liable for the debt given the wording. the company has since gone into liquidation however I have resigned prior to this and resigned from the board also, albeit a month prior to the companies demise.

 

I have looked at similar posts within the forum and planned to respond as detailed below, but would appreciate any advice in this respect as I suspect this may not be the last letter I receive.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 27th April and refute your claim that I am personally liable for the unpaid invoice you refer to in your letter on the following grounds.

 

1. Misrepresentation - the document is headed 'Credit Account Application Form' and for it to be a Personal Guarantee is misrepresentation by creditor.

2. I did not sign the Application Form in a personal capacity but as a Director of xx Limited. It is further submitted that if this Application Form is found to be a guarantee it has an unreasonable indemnity clause within the meaning of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (”the 1977 Act”). The form that is the subject of this guarantee was between the Claimant and xx Ltd. My involvement as a guarantor was purely a personal matter between myself and xx Ltd.

3. My trade or profession is not that of guarantor and I did not provide this guarantee in return for a fee or commission. It is therefore submitted that I was ”dealing as a consumer” within the meaning of section 12 of the 1977 Act (R & B Customs Brokers Company Ltd v United Dominions Trust Ltd [1987] EWCA Civ 3).

4. As a result of the above case, the guarantee must be reasonable and it is submitted that the guarantee does not meet the reasonableness test of section 11 of the UCTA1977 Act and it is noted that by subsection (5) that it is for those claiming that a contract term or notice satisfies the requirement of reasonableness to show that it does.

5. It is my belief that the guarantee does not meet the reasonableness test for the following reasons.

a. I had no intention of entering into a personal guarantee

b. What is purporting to be a personal liability is incorporated in the body of a document which is clearly designed to impose liability on MARS (Construction) Limited and not myself personally.

c. It has been shown above that I am a consumer in this case. Under the Unfair Terms (Consumer Contract) Regulations 1999 (regulation 8) an unfair term is not binding on the consumer and therefore I cannot be held liable for the xx Limited debt.

d. Under regulation 5(1) of the UTCCR a contractual term that is not individually negotiated will be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirements of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer. The Application Form was clearly pre-printed and was a standard form of the Claimant and therefore cannot have been individually negotiated. By trying to pass the liability of a third party to myself, without my knowledge, there has clearly been a imbalance in the parties rights and is to the detriment of myself financially.

 

Given the above I consider the matter closed and request that you withdraw your claim in writing by return.

 

Any advice you can give would be appreciated as I am worried what may be in store for the coming months.

 

Nick

Edited by Nick wheatley
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Hi Nick,

 

I have seen and heard of so many of this type of agreement / PG used not only by Screwfix and associated companies but many builders merchants and the like.

 

The wording IMHO is misleading, detrimental to the signee and should be subject to scrutiny by the OFT. I know personally of one 25 year old secretary that signed the form as an application for her employer in the capacity as an authorised person to do so on behalf of the company, who 6 months later left the company, for the company to liquidate 3 years later, and for these lowlifes to seek a claim in default (moved address) and ICO on her house for a debt incurred by her employer - some 27k worth inc charges.

 

These types of agreement need binning and I can only suggest that companies DO NOT sign with the suppliers that word as such a credit app form.

 

You seem well versed in the legal standing, it is certainly my understanding that the question of capacity should be litigated, and I wish you well in your own case, and please post any conclusion to this, as you certainly will help others.

 

All the best

 

N

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Hi N

 

Thanks for your reply. I agree with your thoughts, and I have learnt a very valuable lesson as my time as a director. Unfortunately, my understanding of the legal ramifications may be misleading as I have taken most of the wording of my letter from advice given within another post, credit I believe is owed to "toddle2u".

 

I am very concerned personally as I had signed a number of credit account applications in my role and believe this may be the start of many letters of this nature. To this end I am looking for any advice I can get with a view to defending my position.

 

Many thanks for your reply

 

Nick

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Hi Nick

I wish it was good news, but in my case it is not. They took me to court and a hearing date was set. I agreed to arbitration and they did as well. I have to say that the process was not a lot of use really. The arbitrator just told me how good a case Screwfix believed they had and confirmed that they would proceed to court if I did not settle. My arguments seemed to fall upon deaf ears and I very much got the impression that I should make a offer to settle, as Screwfix were saying that if it went to a hearing they would seek extra costs from me. In the end I made a offer and they settled and the cheque went off the next week.

I did use all the arguments that had been post on this site, but received a very long solicitors letter challenging each one.

Like I said, not good news really, but I did manage to settle for less than they were originally asking for, but I do sometimes wish I had gone for my hour in court really.

Regards

 

Peter

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Hi Chris

 

Sorry to hijack your post but I also find myself in a very similar situation. I received l letter yesterday from solicitors representing screwfix. I had signed a credit application form as a director of the business with the wording "I confirm that we have read and agree to the terms and conditions supplied to us by screwfix direct ltd. I the director, agree to guarantee performance of all the company's financial obligations to screwfix direct ltd and it's subsidiaries"

 

Like you, I also resigned from the company and the board prior to the company's demise.

 

Again, the letter made reference to a personal guarantee made by me which given the circumstances I believe is gross misrepresentation. I was planning to reply using the wording you have suggested, however speaking with another user who did the same, apparently just received a long letter in reply contesting each of the points.

 

I would very much like to hear of your progress as I suspect I may receive more letters from other suppliers.

 

Many thanks

 

Nick

Edited by Nick wheatley
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Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for your reply, having searched online, this appears to be a real issue, and I feel like a bit of a mug now not having read the small print, a lesson in life I may learn to my detriment. It feel very strongly that I have been mislead in this respect but without paying out for legal fees, I feel my only option may be to pay up. My only real concern is what others I may receive from here on in as I am aware I signed more than one application in my time on the board.

 

Thanks again for your time taken to reply, it helps somewhat knowing I'm not on my own!

 

Nick

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Hi guys

 

Sorry to hijack your post, but I have found myself in a very similar situation as of yesterday morning. I had signed a credit application form back in 2009, a copy of which I have attached for your information. I since resigned from the company and the board of directors before the company went into liquidation and now find myself being chased by solicitors for the outstanding account stating I had entered into a personal guarantee.

 

I did not believe at the time this is what I was doing and felt my liability only extended to my capacity as a company director, not as that of an individual.

 

Given the wording in the document and the fact that I left the company prior to its demise, do I have a leg to stand on?

 

I have been given 14 days to pay up or they have threatened legal proceedings!

 

I am a complete novice when it comes to legals and I would really appreciate any help you can give.

 

Yours in desperation,

 

Nick

 

Screwfix Personal Guarantee.jpg

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Screwfix Personal Guarantee.jpg

 

Hi Toddle2U

 

You make reference in your reply above "This does not contain all or the crucial arguments I was able to use as the forms you have signed are more stringent and clearly defined with regards to bring the PG to the attention of the person signing."

 

I have signed a similar Credit Account Application form whereby the heading was CONFIRMATION OF ACCEPTANCE. The wording beneath read "I confirm that we have read and agree to the terms and Conditions supplied to us by Screwfix Direct Ltd. I the director, agree to guarantee performance of all the company's financial obligations to Screwfix Direct Ltd and it's subsidiaries"

 

The company I worked for has since gone into liquidation and I am now being pursued for the unpaid balance despite having left the employ of the company and the board prior to its demise. Does my case have any potential for some of the crucial arguments you make reference to?

 

I have posted all over the forum yesterday and today, but to no avail. I have 14 days in which to pay the debt by which time I will be served with legal action.

 

I really would appreciate some help if you have the time.

 

Kind regards

 

Nick

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Hi Folks

 

I am new to the forum and unfortunately have joined out of desperation and panic!

 

I was previously a Director of a company wherby I signed a number of Credit Application forms to trade suppliers. I left the company and resigned from the Board in February this year and shortly afterwards the company went into liquidation, coincidently I might add.

 

I have now received a letter demanding payment on an unpaid account where the solicitors are inferring I have made a personal guarantee. The document I signed certainly does not imply this although the wording guarantee is included beneath the heading Confirmation of Acceptance.

 

I am a little unsure how to respond and any advice would be very much appreciated. The letter is dated 27th April 2012 and I have been told that if I do not pay in 14 days, they will issue legal action.

 

Can anyone assist??

 

I have attached the credit application for your reference.

 

Kind regards

 

Nick

 

Screwfix Personal Guarantee.jpg

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threads merged to the business forum

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Not a problem my colleague has merged the threads, it helps

us keep up with events get the advice from the right source.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Nick

 

Just to let you know I have merged all of your other posts from various threads to this one place, i.e. your thread.

 

As has been said, please just stick to this one regarding your Screwfix Issue

 

Thanks

 

ims

 

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