Evening all,

I was considering just paying the ticket i received recently but the more i thought about it the more i thought it was unfair / very harsh. So i thought i would have a dig around on the net and came across this place.

briefly, the circumstances of how i ended up with a ticket are:

I arrived at brentwood station car park run by, and google tells me, owned by NCP.

It was fairly busy in one section of the car park, i am very picky about parking my car next / close to other cars so i bombed down to an area without many cars in it at all and picked a spot on the end of a row of bays. I did pass a signed about permits but thought that it was only for the bays directly by the sign. It would seem the permit area was from that sign and beyond to the end of the car park! Anyway, i bought my ticket for the day (over paid as i didn't have the correct change) and went about my day. came back and bang, i have a ticket for 75 notes on my wind screen!!! Anyone that has been to brentwood station car park (the massive one that's actually across the road from the station itself) will know that it is huge!! Accepted i parked where i should park, but to say that i caused them losses by paying for a space, parking in a permit spot is beyond belief. Notwithstanding that, there is acres, and i mean acres of car parking spaces that do not get used by the permit holders on a daily basis.

I have done some reading on this forum, and have come across the wording below. Firstly, do people here think i should have a go and defend the ticket? Secondly, what is the best reason / avenue to go down? i think proof of loss as i paid up and to my mind they lost absolutely nothing by me parking in that spot for the day!! A guy i know gave me a letter which was more about legal fiction, and no contract blah blah, but i wasn't convinced by this as i didn't full understand it (and i don't feel confident defending something with a letter i don't really understand should i need to them back it up further) he also said that signing an appeal letter means you have entered into a contract with the??

anyway, below is the wording i found on here, just to show that i have done some reading!

"Please read through the forum and get to understand what the arguments are.

Your defence will basically be

that you deny that you are indebted.

You deny that there was any contract.

That even if there was a contract, any term which they are attempting to rely upon is an unenforceable penalty because the money they claim is in excess of any administrative losses which may have been caused by you.

That the term they are trying to rely upon is also unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regs. for the same reason - and therefore invalid.

And that in any event, they are not the owners of the carpark and furthermore they have no interesticon in the land which entitles them to enter into any contract or to name themselves as a claimant in the proceedings -

and furthermore, they do not have any authority from the landowners to bring any proceedings.

However, before we settle this.

Please lay out the exact facts - including who what where nature of signage etc.

In the meantime, write a letter to them - recorded and tell them that you want

details breakdown of any losses which they say were sustained by them and which they say were caused by you.

details of any losses which have been sustained by the landowner and which they say were caused by you

Evidence that they have the locus standii to sue you - and also written evidence that they are authorised by the landowner to do so.

Tell them that you will be defending their claim and that you will be informing the court that you have made these requests and that if they refuse or fail to provide you with the information, that you will inform the court of that refusal or failure."

its a speculative invoice .

also NCP rarely if at all do court.

dx

cheers dx..... so should i write a letter? an have i actually entered into a contract by paying for the actual ticket in the first place?

thanks

did they send the popla thingy?

dx

Evening all,

 

I was considering just paying the ticket i received recently...... Anyway, i bought my ticket for the day (over paid as i didn't have the correct change) and went about my day. came back and bang, i have a ticket for 75 notes on my wind screen!!!."

What is the exact date of recently? Has any contact been made yet with NCP?

dx, on the ticket they said i can go to popla, yes. i have done this and popla seems to be as much use as chocolate teapot (on the basis of their grounds of appeal)

Armadillo, the date of the ticket was 2 weeks ago last wednesday, 27th Nov

cheers

So you have made no contact then?

nope

I would make NCP work for their money by first of all appealing to them pointing out that you have paid the prescribed fee for the day and therefore you have caused no loss to them by parking as you did. Secondly, point out that the signage for the permit parking is inadequate and as such you have not breached the contract because you were ignorant of any contractual obligation due to the deficient signage.

They may well reject your appeal but are obliged to give you a POPLA reference number. You can them appeal to POPLA and the reason for your appeal will be that NCP failed to show how a loss was made by you paying the prescribed fee and that no claim for damages breach of contract can occur where contract conditions were not made clear at the time.(Olley v Marlborough Court Ltd 1949 and others). The only damages would be the price of the parking permit so they havent lost a bean.

Finally, if that isnt accepted by POPLA you can feel free to ignore NCP anyway as they will be hammered in court if they tried claiming what they havent lost.

nope

Well you wait and see if you get a NTK in the post between 28- 56 days from 27th Nov.

In the meantime you can read up on the private parking industry....

what's an NTK?

Notice to keeper.

hi, thanks for your replies. I Now have a notice from NCP.

I was thinking of writing and refusing to pay on the basis that i paid for a ticket, teher was acres of spaces and they have suffered no loss as a consequence....

or should i just ignore it?

Thanks

ps: i received the notice on the 27th January, more than 56 days later.....

Sorry, I don't get this..... #6 you were given a POPLA no...... #7 armadillo71 " so you made no contact then" #8 "Nope".

But you state #6 "yes I've done this....... So you have done a POPLA appeal,and made contact. Did POPLA refuse the appeal?

No. They referred to popla on the ticket. i haven't appealed to anyone. i was waiting to see if i got a ntk, which i got a few days ago.

OK, I thought you had made the POPLA appeal. Good then it's back to ericsbrother #9

cool, i'll write a letter to them this week!

No. They referred to popla on the ticket. i haven't appealed to anyone. i was waiting to see if i got a ntk, which i got a few days ago.

If the 1st correspondence through the post from NCP (NTK), is more than 56 days after the windscreen ticket(NTD), then they can't use POFA for keeper liability.... They can only go after the driver, and they don't know who that is!

Appeal as reg keeper saying you are not liable and under no obligation to name driver.

27/11--- 27/01... I make it 61 days...timed out

Think about this before you "fire all your bullets" ( Other CAGGERS will advise first )

Reply to NCP re. ericsbrother #9. This WILL get rejected...(that's the SUCKER punch).. because they then HAVE to issue a POPLA no. Cost to them £29.50.

Then you appeal to POPLA with "It's timed out"

You only write as the RK.

RESULT

ps: i received the notice on the 27th January, more than 56 days later.....

27/11--- 27/01... I make it 61 days...timed out

What is the issue date on the NTK though?

Date of the windscreen ticket, or "contravention" is the 27th November 2013.

The post date of the NTK was the 24th/01/14 (Friday) with the "date this notice is given" being the 28th January 2014. I actually received it on the 27th, which was the Monday.

I've just sat down to write a letter and I thought I would check this thread again before i actually go for it.....

Hi all, today is the 27th day so i am looking to get something in teh post today..... Is the general consensus that I should appeal first as suggested, get a popla and then state that the notice to keeper wasn't issued in time? Or do i simply write stating that the NTK was not issued in accordance with the POFA and assume there is nothing to answer?

Cheers

You cannot appeal because they havent given you a POPLA code. They havent issued one because you havent appealed to them. You havent appealed to them because they are timed out on issuing the NTK and therefore cant claim against you as the keeper of the vehicle. DONT DO ANYTHING unless you get another letter and then you tell the parking co that they were out of time for claiming against the keeper of the vehicle under the PoFA and can go whistle and any other correspondence will be considered as harassment and you will consider civil remedy for that..