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    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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    • deed?  you mean consent order you and her signed? concluding the case as long as you nor she break it's conditions signed upto? dx  
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Car Repossession (Bailiffs in scotland !!)


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Hi , I am a new member looking for some help/advise about car repossessions in Scotland by bailiffs because as far as I am aware bailiffs have no powers in Scotland. I had my car reppossed by Bailiffs without a court order even though it says on my loan aggreement that after I have payed over one third of the balance my car cannot be reppossed without a court order or my conscent.

 

I only borrowed £600 with an APR of 370% the loan was secured on my own car valued at around £1200 I have payed the loan company over £1400 back and now they have sold my car:sad: . I have since found out that the reason they uplifted my car was 2 payments I had made to the loan were never recived but I do have proof I payed the insalment as I payed using internet banking . The car was uplifted because the company thought I was 2 months behind in my payments wich was untrue as I hade mad the payments .

 

Traiding Stadards have told me that this action was illegal and they sent the company a letter stating that I would be entitled to all the money back I had payed into the loan . Traiding Standard were told by the company the they dont often get a court order so this is happening to others . I have been told by the CIB that I do have a case and I should look to take the company to court but as I cant get legal aid it would cost me more to take them to court that the cars worth . Cheers Alex,

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This was theft - no Bailiffs have jurisdiction in Scotland, it would have to be a sheriff officer. If you reported it as theft, police would probably say it was a civil matter and do nothing more, however do you know which firm did the reposession? You could then complain to their trade body and cause them aggro.

 

As to satisfaction, there's no legal aid for civil actions, but depending what you paid and seek to recover, you can take the Small Claims track (under £750) Summary Cause (under £1500) and Ordinary Action (over £1500) the first two you can do yourself, but the last one need a Solicitor. Do remember if successful, you get all your costs back, plus that of your solicitor - so it might be worth considering this.

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This was theft - no Bailiffs have jurisdiction in Scotland, it would have to be a sheriff officer. If you reported it as theft, police would probably say it was a civil matter and do nothing more, however do you know which firm did the repossession? You could then complain to their trade body and cause them aggro.

 

As to satisfaction, there's no legal aid for civil actions, but depending what you paid and seek to recover, you can take the Small Claims track (under £750) Summary Cause (under £1500) and Ordinary Action (over £1500) the first two you can do yourself, but the last one need a Solicitor. Do remember if successful, you get all your costs back, plus that of your solicitor - so it might be worth considering this.

 

Thanks for that advise , I looked into Summary Cause I am considering taking this action however I am trying to get all the information I can get before I go down that road . The name of the company that reposed my car is Gemini International who were acting on behalf of the loan company log book loans who have the log . Cheers Alex

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You might want to take advice from CAB as to who (in their opinion) is the best to raise action against. If it was me, I'd go with the Finance House, as it was they who instructed Gemini - hopefully you've got some documentation to prove they took the vehicle? Who was the Registered Keeper of the vehicle.... did 'Log Book Loans' retain this?

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You might want to take advice from CAB as to who (in their opinion) is the best to raise action against. If it was me, I'd go with the Finance House, as it was they who instructed Gemini - hopefully you've got some documentation to prove they took the vehicle? Who was the Registered Keeper of the vehicle.... did 'Log Book Loans' retain this?

 

 

The log book was retained by log book loans and I did sign a sales document saying I had sole the car to them but I also got an standard HP agreement . There is a part of the aggrement that states

 

"If you fail to keep to your side of the Agreement but you have paid at least one-third of the total amount payable under this Agreement,this is £483.16 Logook may not take back the Vehicle against your wishes unless he gets a court order. (In Scotland he may need to get a court order at any time) If he does take them without your consent or a court, you have the right to get back all the money you have paid under the agreement."

 

Cheers Alex,

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Seems fairly straightforward then - they've screwed up. Providing LBL do confirm they reposessed the vehicle, (and it wasn't 'stolen' by somebody else (!), just write to LBL stating the facts and pointing out they are in breach of Term X of your contractr. As such, you require full payment of £XXX within 21 days. If this is not received, you will raise an action against them for full recovery of the moneies owed, plus costs.

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Seems fairly straightforward then - they've screwed up. Providing LBL do confirm they repossessed the vehicle, (and it wasn't 'stolen' by somebody else (!), just write to LBL stating the facts and pointing out they are in breach of Term X of your contractr. As such, you require full payment of £XXX within 21 days. If this is not received, you will raise an action against them for full recovery of the moneies owed, plus costs.

 

Traiding Standards wrote to LBL saying that they were in breach of the contract LBL just said that I had said during a phone call to them at some point " If you can find the car you can have it" this was not true I never said anything like that at any time . They said that they were using that statment from me as consent to pick the car up.

 

I was looking through the Scottish Executive web site today and I found some useful information that might help me it was about "Wrongfull Diligence" according to the Scottish Executive a person can claim damages and the good returned if a company uses Wrongfull Diligence . This is what they said

 

"There are a few situations where there may be said to be strict liability for wrongfull diligence . All that must be proved is the wrongful use of the diligence to establish liability for damages . This would be the case when there was no warrant at all to justify the use of diligence. "

 

I would have thought was also straight forward as Gemini never had a warrant or court order , I will mention this when I visit the CIB later this week but without legal aid I am not sure how I can do anything about this wrongfull Diligence without going to court . Cheers Alex

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Your in danger of being sidetracked and playing the lawyers at their own game. You cannot act yourself in pursuing 'wrongful diligence', and whilst it might be a useful avenue to explore if everything else failed, I don't see how this can benefit you in the short term.

 

As to LBLs statement that you challenged them to find the car, this is wrong for so many reasons - they'd have to prove you said this, do they have a recoding of you saying those words? If not, they'll have difficulty in getting a Sheriff to believe them. Just call on them to return the cash you paid, and if they do not this, you will employ due dilligence of your own to make them appear in court and obtain satisfaction.

 

Take the simplest route, it's faster and cheaper.

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LBL won't have a recording of me because I never said it in the first place the only thing that concerns me about going taking them to court on my own is the sales aggrement that said I sold the car to them .

 

I will talk to the CAB on Monday I will ask them if that makes a difference, if they say it dosen't then I will go ahead with the Summary Cause action . I cant see however that it should be a way for them to get away with taking my car . Cheers Alex

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If the agreement states that you sold the car to them, then there will have been a consideration (payment) made to you? If not, that part is immaterial as if no money changes hands, you haven't sold them anything. I agree they shouldn;t have done what they did, and it shows an amazing disrespect for your rights, perrhaps there IS something you can do at a later stange to address this, but in the short ter,. if you don;t have your car, you want your money, and I see nothing wrong with that!

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I went to the C.A.B today they said they would write to log book loans again so I have to wait until I can go to court . They said if we don't get and joy this time we will try going through the courts. Alex

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