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    • Better version attached with the late appeal explained more clearly for the judge. This will sound silly, but I think it would be a good idea to e-mail it to the court and UKPC on Sunday.  It's probably me being daft, but Sunday is still March, and as it's late, sending it in March rather than April will make it sound like it was less late than it really is.  if you get my drift. You can still pop in a paper version on Tuesday if you want. E-mail address for the court: [email protected] And for UKPC: [email protected]   [email protected] Defendant WS.pdf
    • Update 15th March the eviction notice period expired, and I paid my next month rent along with sending them the message discussed above. After a short while they just emailed me back this dry phrase "Thank you for your email." In two weeks' time I'm gonna need to pay the rent again, and I have such a feeling that shortly after that date the contracts will be exchanged and all the payments will be made.  Now my main concern is, if possible, not to end up paying rent after I move out.  
    • they cant 'take away' anything, what ever makes you believe that?  dx  
    • The text on the N1SDT Claim Form 1.The claim is for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. 2. The defendant's vehicle, NumberPlate, was identified in the Leeds Bradford Airport Roadways on the 28/07/2023 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited 3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver. 4. The terms and conditions upon  entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations 5. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct. 6.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply,  namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. 7.The claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.   This is what I am thinking of for the wording of my defence The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and are generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 1. Paragraph 1 is denied. It is denied that the Defendant ever entered into a contract to breach any terms and conditions of the stated private land. 2. Paragraph 2 and 4 are denied. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. 3. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of the vehicle. 4.  Paragraph 6 is denied the claimant has yet to evidence that their contract with the landowner supersedes  Leeds Bradford airport byelaws. Further it is denied that the Claimant’s signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract. 5. Paragraph 7 is denied, there are no contractual costs and interest cannot be accrued on a speculative charge.   I'm not sure whether point 4 is correct as I think this side road is not covered by byelaws? Any other suggestions/corrections would be appreciated.
    • Dear EVRi parcelnet LTD t/a evri   evri parcelnet isnt a thing also you say defendant's response which is a bit of a weird format.   Something like   Dear EVRi, Claim no xxxx In your defence you said you could not access tracking. Please see attached receipt and label Regards
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      This is good ethical practice.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Money taken out of account without consent


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I logged onto my online banking on 15/8/07 to find that I had a debit charge that I did not immediately recognise from my account. I telephoned Halifax immediately to enquire what the charge was about and was told it was in relation to motor insurance. I told them that I had not authorised the transation and my card was stoped and reissued.

 

I was told that this was a fraudulent transaction that it would be passed to the Fraud department and someone would contact me. On 23/8/07 I was contacted by an official from the Fraud dept who initially told me that I had to chase for the return of money myself giving the reason that I had dealth with them previously.

 

I told them that I felt I should not have to chase for a transaction I had not authorised or agreed to and that the bank acknowledges is fraudulent. I was told that forms would be sent to me for completion and once these were returned the Fraud department would determine whether it should be referred to the police for further investigation or whether I would get my money reimbursed.

 

I have determined that the transaction was an automatic renewal for my son's car which I had paid for a year ago and he has since gone elsewhere.

 

In the meantime Halifax have increased my overdraft limit so that I can continue using my account; of course the overdraft is incurring interest charges which I am not happy about.

 

Should I chase the insurance company myself? Or should Halifax chase them on my behalf and reclaim chargeback? Who should be responsible for overdraft fees?

 

What is the best course of action?

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Have you tried contacting the motor insurance company? Im assuming the payment is classed as a one off Direct Debit payment, you can go into your local Halifax branch and fill out an Indemity form, Halifax will then credit the amount back into your account and then request the money back from whoever the motor company was.....simple as, it happened to me last month and thats all i did took minutes!

Nationwide Won - £2000 :D

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I would first speak to your son and find out if he has confirmation that he has cancelled the insurance policy, and that he has it in writing.

 

Its all to common nowadays for the renewals to renew automatically unless told otherwise.

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You've discovered one of the many 'gotchas' with online ordering. The firms concerned will retain the card details and use them to re provide services EVEN IF YOU GAVE NO PERMISSION TO DO SO. The banks do not care, and will do (as they did in your case) state you voluntarily gave them your card details so any culpability rests between you and them. I'm in the middle of a similar case where Norwich Union were able to help themselves again despite my arranging cover elsewhere. It seems that Visa pay no attention to expiry dates (my replacement card had the same number but a different expiry and CVV code. Since neither of these two details were known to NU, they still managed to take the funds as the card number was unchanged.

 

I hold a recording of my voice call arranging the cover with NU and it was quite clearly stated the number I gave was for use only for that transaction - yet they still tried to assert I had given permission, because they wrote to me and said they would!

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I would first speak to your son and find out if he has confirmation that he has cancelled the insurance policy, and that he has it in writing.

 

Its all to common nowadays for the renewals to renew automatically unless told otherwise.

 

The policy was cancelled as he returned the renewal certificate that was provided and requested cancellation.

 

It is not a DD but a Debit Card payment from my Visa Debit. I just find it illogical that VISA regulations differ from bank to bank.

 

He had a similar problem recently with his card from Lloyds who merely charged back the amount, but Halifax seem to not want to care.

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The VISA regulations don;t differ - it's VISA's ball and they do with as they please. You bank simply honoured a debit request from Visa, fully trusting they had the relevant authority. It is when you challenge this, you get the Banks refusing to assist or reverse without you leaping through hoops.

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The VISA regulations don;t differ - it's VISA's ball and they do with as they please. You bank simply honoured a debit request from Visa, fully trusting they had the relevant authority. It is when you challenge this, you get the Banks refusing to assist or reverse without you leaping through hoops.

 

Buzby: isn't the whole point of us using banks and visa cards because of their pledge that our money will be protected against just such fraud. I believe that this protection has gone out the window with internet transactions. It is worrying that these big firms can hold our details and use them electronically without a by your leave to gain illegal payments. Until the law is altered to prevent this happening, we poor buggers can chase for it.

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As I understand it, insurers will generally cancel a policy, back dated to its inception, if it was automatically renewed, providing you can show that the car was continuously insured - so providing you can show the certificate from the new insurer, starting on the same day that the original policy should have lapsed, you shouldn't have a problem getting your money back.

 

In fairness to the bank, it isn't their fault, and the same guarantee (immediate refund) doesn't apply to card payments as it does to Direct Debits.

 

The insurance company will claim they were 'right' to take the payment, but hopefully will refund without any issues - particularly if the certificate has been returned and the car can be demonstrated to be insured continuously elsewhere.

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As I understand it, insurers will generally cancel a policy, back dated to its inception, if it was automatically renewed, providing you can show that the car was continuously insured

 

The issue here is not that there is an obligation of the OP to show the insurance was not required (as an alternative arrangement had been made), but that a card number provided 12 months earlier, had been retained and used without permission.

 

Little wonder firms like Esure do not allow policy payments to be made in cash or by cheque, for the simple reason they cannot take control of the insured's finances.

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Sorry buzby, but I think the title of this thread is rather misleading, and it is yet unproven that permission WASN'T given.

 

When you take out motor insurance, it is STANDARD PRACTICE for your insurer to contact you, between 2 and 4 weeks (I guess) prior to the end of the policy, with an updated quotation for renewal.

 

If you paid with a card the first time around, or if you are paying with a continuous payment method (eg DD), they will tell you that, unless you choose to cancel, they will take payment once again, and provide continuous cover.

 

I appreciate that things have changed since a few years ago, when you always knew you were buying car insurance for 12 months, and had no recurring contract with the insurer - but I'd be surprised if this wasn't mentioned during the payment / sign-up procedure, as I'm sure it was with mine - something along the lines of "When it is time to renew, we'll send a renewal quotation, and will take payment using the details we hold on file, unless you chose to decline the renewal."

 

For people who want to stick with the same insurer, year on year, this is a nice and easy way of doing things - better for some people to be doubly insured (cos they forget to cancel) than have people driving around uninsured (because they forgot to renew).

 

The OP's son doubtless received a renewal quotation, and I'd be surprised if it didn't mention taking payment once again, using his father's details. My recent renewal even identified my credit card number (last 4 digits), in bold print, so it was very clear what would happen.

 

I simply sent the certificate back in the provided envelope, and they didn't bill me for this year.

 

I agree that times are changing, and more companies retain your financial details in order to charge you for the same service again the following year, but it doesn't have to be 'sinister' and permission / consent to do so was almost certainly granted.

 

As I said, it shouldn't be hard t get the money back - but if there's an argument to be had, it should be with the insurer, not the bank.

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It just goes to show how our finances have been totally undermined. As the customer, I take out (and pay) for a service using a card. I make no specific arrangements to permit the firm to take subsequent payments yet they can do this on a whim, and I have to battle for my money back. I could have dropped dead and not required insurance, their ability to take funds because they can is an abomination. The fact banks are simply processing the debit requests does not excuse them from a responsibility of ensuring the customer actually WANTED to pay the debit as taken. The mere fact the insurance company was given the number of the card in the first place does not signify any agreement for further debits to be taken, and I wish there could be some protection built in to the system to prevent abuse like this.

 

A system I used previously that issued 'virtual' CC numbers that expired after one usage was used by Cahoot and AIB, and worked extremely well - so much so, the company promoting the scheme had a hard time from firms who objected to their right to continuously bill were being infringed!

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  • 6 years later...

I have just had the same with my car insurance (Admiral). I bought another car about 2 months or so prior to my insurance expiring and paid the transfer / admin fee of about £20 or there abouts. Their renewal was several hundred more than quotes I received prior to buying the car so when paying this transfer fee I specifically stated not to auto renew my insurance. The man said he noted this down on the system. (Their quotes for the new car being around £700 a year, normally paying around £300)

 

I always paid annually.

 

My renewal was mid-September and received an email that my funds did not go through (luckily it was an old card I used for the admin fee) and emailed them of my previous conversation that I did not want to auto renew. I then received my "confirmation of motor insurance", charging some £1000 more than swift insurance. (£1300)

 

Their renewal is set up now as monthly payments so unsure how that can auto renew and change from annual to monthly, so this is another concern.

 

I have just had another email saying that if I do not pay within 7 days I have committed an offence under the road traffic act and “DEFAULT NOTICE SERVED UNDER SECTION 87 (1) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974”

Basically Admiral have ignored both telephone calls and emails and threatening with court action should I not pay.

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Adie, I have responded on your thread :)

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