Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

SORN - "Untaxed Vehicle"


krysus
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5640 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I registered my car SORN on 31/7/2007, my understanding being SORN, as it says, is "Off Road", and had my car parked on the pavement outside my house all that time.

 

Last week i came home to find a red & yellow big sticker posted under my wiper "UNTAXED VEHICLE" with a paper slip describing penalties for breach of SORN, driving whilst untaxed, etc. stating that my vehicle had been reported to DVLA for them to take further action.

 

I now understand that although it's off the road, the pavement is still technically part of the public highway :(

 

Anyway, there was nothing with a time, date, person, etc. or any other relevant details, as you would expect, for example, with a parking ticket.

 

I've now sold the car, and hence it is no longer outside my house.

 

Obviously, the DVLA have a record of the car being declared SORN. If they decide to fine me, what proof can they have that it was parked on the pavement?

 

Alternatively, should i take the pro-active approach, and contact the DVLA claiming a mis-understanding of the SORN rules and attempt to come to a compromise? Obviously the maximum £1000 fine seems a bit steep under the circumstances!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Krysus

Last week i came home to find a red & yellow big sticker posted under my wiper "UNTAXED VEHICLE" with a paper slip describing penalties for breach of SORN, driving whilst untaxed, etc. stating that my vehicle had been reported to DVLA for them to take further action.

 

This is normally placed on a vehicle by community police officers, or council Traffic Wardens as part of their abandoned vehicle policy.

 

If it is by the police/community officers - the sticker will say 'POLICE AWARE' and is merely a warning.

 

For traffic wardens/council officials - not knowing which council it is, I couldn't say for definite, but one of the following usually happens:

 

1) They place the notice on the vehicle as a warning, usually there is a time limit on it, for the vehicle to be removed to an alternate place - off-road.

 

2) They place the sticker and notice on the vehicle, photograph it and send to the DVLA :(

 

 

The only way you will know, is if you get a fine from the DVLA.

 

If you don't get a fine letter through the post, all well and good - but if you do get a fine through the post, please feel free to adapt and use my Template Letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/115778-template-letter-sorn-fines.html within your reply to the fine.

 

 

Alternatively, should i take the pro-active approach, and contact the DVLA claiming a mis-understanding of the SORN rules and attempt to come to a compromise? Obviously the maximum £1000 fine seems a bit steep under the circumstances!!

 

Noooo - wait for them to contact you, if they ever do, then you can plead ignorance of the rules at the time (as you have clearly stated here, that you didn't understand the SORN rules) - don't land yourself in trouble, by contacting them and as they politely nod their heads and take your details, all the while writing out a fine for you.

 

I don't think you should be at risk of any fines from the DVLA - but if you do get one, myself or someone else here on the forum will be able to help

 

Dani

Link to post
Share on other sites

Noooo - wait for them to contact you, if they ever do, then you can plead ignorance of the rules - don't land yourself in trouble, by contacting them and as they politely nod their heads and take your details, all the while writing out a fine for you.

 

For someone who is supposedly in the "legal profession" don't you think it is bad advice to tell someone to plead ignorance of the law when you know that ignorance of the law is no defence?

 

The bottom line is that in this case, the OP unfortunately misunderstood the law regarding SORN and left his car parked on the public highway, instead of taking it off the road completely.

 

The only thing I would agree with is to wait for DVLA to contact him rather than contacting them first, but it appears he has been caught "bang to rights" on this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest 10110001

Noooo - wait for them to contact you, if they ever do, then you can plead ignorance of the rules - don't land yourself in trouble, by contacting them and as they politely nod their heads and take your details, all the while writing out a fine for you.

 

Not sure about DVLA but in a criminal courts this is no defence.

 

A burglar cant contend he didnt know breaking & entering was illegal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Noooo - wait for them to contact you, if they ever do, then you can plead ignorance of the rules - don't land yourself in trouble, by contacting them and as they politely nod their heads and take your details, all the while writing out a fine for you.

 

Very difficult to plead ignorance when on the link below it clearly states that a vehicle must be parked on private property, and the OP will have completed this form to obtain a SORN.

 

http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/vehicles/vehicle_forms/V15.pdf

 

Please do not make post of this nature, CAG does not condone posts that advise the op to act illegally etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly, are you sure that the car is parked on the public highway?

 

1) For the purposes of VED and SORN, the definition of a public highway is "a road maintained at public expense"; this is very different from the definition for the Road Traffic Act.

 

2) Normally, the pavement and verges are regarded as part of the highway. If you contact the highway authority for the road in question (usually the County Council), they can tell the extent of the public highway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very difficult to plead ignorance when on the link below it clearly states that a vehicle must be parked on private property, and the OP will have completed this form to obtain a SORN.

 

http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/vehicles/vehicle_forms/V15.pdf

 

Please do not make post of this nature, CAG does not condone posts that advise the op to act illegally etc.

 

All I meant, is that he should explain that - at the time he did not understand the rules, perhaps I should have said plead his ignorance at the time.

 

Plus, if the car is parked on the pavement, it is quite hard to establish exactly who owns the pavement.

 

It may be the council, or a private company (if he lives on a private estate). I had a problem with ascertaining who owned the pavement next to the road about 18 months ago - when there was a blockage in the sewer pipe outside my property. I rang up Severn Trent, who put my address details in, then was advised, that they could not fix the problem as the council were responsible for maintaining the water/sewage system within this estate as they own all the land. I rang the council and after an argument or two they came out and fixed the problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plus, if the car is parked on the pavement, it is quite hard to establish exactly who owns the pavement.

 

Ownership is irrelevant.

 

What matters is who is responsible for the maintenance of the highway and what is its extent - does it include the pavement?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Very difficult to plead ignorance when on the link below it clearly states that a vehicle must be parked on private property, and the OP will have completed this form to obtain a SORN.

 

http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/vehicles/vehicle_forms/V15.pdf

 

Please do not make post of this nature, CAG does not condone posts that advise the op to act illegally etc.

 

Well, i filled registered my SORN via the DVLA website and at no point does it explicitly state "it [the vehicle] will be kept on private property".

 

Anyway, long and short was a £69 quid fine, couldn't be bothered dragging it out, so paid it.

 

Funny though... £69 is the amount i'd pay for 6 months VED, so are fines linked? I.e. if i had a 'bigger' car, would the fine have been higher??

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

i have had an untaxed vehicle sticker posted on my car in my driveway, I wouldn't mind bt I made a sorn on 2nd oct 2008 after it failed mot, finally passed on 15th oct and sticker appears on 17th, should i worry, or will hey come and get my car, i have immediately purchased my tax, but can they come onto my private property to do this?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It the car is on private property, i.e. your drive, and correctly SORN'd, then they can't fine you for having no tax, nor take it away.

 

I do believe it would be trespass too, maybe someone else could confirm that though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...