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    • It's Hotpoint (but I believe they're part of the Whirlpool group now?). The part was bought direct from them as a consumer.
    • Thanks BankFodder for your latest, I'm in complete agreement on the subject of mediation and will be choosing to decline mediation, the longer timeline is not an issue for me, I will happily let the going to court run it's course. I really appreciate the support from the Consumer Action Group. I'll post the email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response. Regards, J    email text I'm sending to Evri's small claims in answer to their recent defence response:  
    • Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone. S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2
    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
    • Nice to hear a positive story about a company on this form for a change. Thank you
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Parking a "SORN" vehicle on an unadopted road


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Is it legal to park a vehicle that is declared as off the road (currently on my drive) on an unadopted road or am I likely to face fines. I could do with my drive back!!

 

It depends on whether the public have access to the privately-owned road, whether the vehicle is immobilized - that is, is wheels prevented from turning - and whether there is an insurance policy on force relating to the vehicle.

 

Determining whether the public have access is trickier than might be thought; if pedestrians have access, it may be public. But it also depends on whether access is for purposes to do with the owners of the road.

 

This makes sense. Suppose, for example, a farmer owns some land, with a private road leading to a farm shop owned by the farmer. Members of the public visiting the shop will use the road, but I'd say that does not make it public for road law purposes. So you could park an uninsured vehicle there without committing an offence.

 

However, if the private road was used by pedestrians as a short-cut to a shop *not* owned by the farmer, that might be enough to make it public for road law purposes - and so vehicles parked there would need to be insured.

 

I expect you can find lots of cases and appeals on this subject, mainly brought by insurance companies attempting to avoid liability.

 

My understanding is that vehicles parked on a private road would not require a test certificate though ... admittedly I've not tried very hard to try to get to the bottom of that question.

 

I also seem to recall reading that if the vehicle were immobilised such that is impossible for the wheels to turn, insurance is not required if it is on a private road even if the public have access.

 

Tim

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Is it legal to park a vehicle that is declared as off the road (currently on my drive) on an unadopted road or am I likely to face fines. I could do with my drive back!!

 

Whether the road is adopted or not is irrelevant.

 

You may not place a vehicle under SORN on the Public Highway. Who actually owns the highway is immaterial.

 

You can check with the Highway Authority (County Council or Unitary Authority) to see if you unadopted road is actually public hughway. If they confirm that it is not, then you may park the vehicle there under SORN rules

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An unadopted road is exactly that......

 

Unadopted by the Highway Authority, so it is NOT a public highway.

 

My house in Wales is on an unadopted road, I have two SORN'd vehicles parked on this road, and the local Police have told me that there is no requirement for any Tax, MOT, or Insurance. PLUS, they say that the vehicles do not have to be immobilised, they also say I can even drive them along the road perfectly legally as long as I don't drive onto the PUBLIC highway at the end of the village.

Nil Illigitimus Carborundum

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An unadopted road is exactly that......

 

Unadopted by the Highway Authority, so it is NOT a public highway.

 

 

No. If the road does not meet the minimum standards set by the local authority, they will not adopt it even if it is a public highway.

 

But if the public have unhindered access - eg if there is a public footpath along the road - then it is a public highway even if it is unadopted.

 

Actually, there's a thread on this site about this, titled "Tickets on an unadopted road".

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/22054-tickets-unadopted-road.html#post171838

 

Tim

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But if the public have unhindered access - eg if there is a public footpath along the road - then it is a public highway even if it is unadopted.

 

 

Not necessarily. I live opposite a 'service road' to a primary school. It's tarmacced, pavements on each side and street lighting and has public access. The road is owned by the Education Dept of the local council, who maintain it, yet it is unadopted and not part of the public highway (I've written confirmation)

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If you look at the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 you will see that it makes mention of "public roads". If you then look at s. 62 it tells you what is a public road, namely "in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense".

 

So the best bet is to contact your local highways authority and check to see whether the road is maintainable at public expense.

 

You do still need insurance though.

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  • 3 years later...

My neighbour has SORN his car, but still uses it on the public road every day. It is almost three years since he last bought a tax disc. In fact, at the moment he has six cars parked in front of his house. The road, however, is unadopted, so he gets away with it. He calls himself a trader, but he never sells any of the cars - just drives them around. It is like living on a garage forecourt. :-x

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My neighbour has SORN his car, but still uses it on the public road every day. It is almost three years since he last bought a tax disc. In fact, at the moment he has six cars parked in front of his house. The road, however, is unadopted, so he gets away with it. He calls himself a trader, but he never sells any of the cars - just drives them around. It is like living on a garage forecourt. :-x

 

Then why don't you report him? I WOULD!!

 

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The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

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Already reported him three times to dvla, nothing has happened as yet. Thanks anyway for the advice.

 

Nothing will happen as the vehicles are legally parked off road as far as SORN is concerned. The DVLA or their agents NSL will not bother taking action which probably surveilance and require a RIPA authorisation to catch him using an untaxed vehicle on a public highway maintained at the public expense it is not worth the man hours or expense when there is easier prey for them to target.

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Nothing will happen as the vehicles are legally parked off road as far as SORN is concerned. The DVLA or their agents NSL will not bother taking action which probably surveilance and require a RIPA authorisation to catch him using an untaxed vehicle on a public highway maintained at the public expense it is not worth the man hours or expense when there is easier prey for them to target.

 

Did you not read his post properly? He said the car is SORNd but being used every day on a public road!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

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As pointed out above by POCA, the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 defines a 'public road' - but that is for VED (road tax) purposes.

 

Does the same definition apply for SORN?

 

What/where is the SORN legislation?

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Just wish i could get ripa authorisation, :-x. Only today, low and behold yet another car is parked in front untaxed, just how big a fish do you have to be ???:cool:. Lets all just sorn are cars and drive them around then.:!:

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Just wish i could get ripa authorisation, :-x. Only today, low and behold yet another car is parked in front untaxed, just how big a fish do you have to be ???:cool:. Lets all just sorn are cars and drive them around then.:!:

 

The DLVA do not as far as I am aware have the power to stop vehicles so even if they did stake out the location in the hope of catching him going on to the road all they could do is watch him drive away like you do. If you consider how many SORN vehicles there are it would not be possible to try and catch them used on the road they rely on spotting them parked or being stopped in random spot checks.

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