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    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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Orange last phone bill: to pay or not to pay?


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Ok, I'm a bit confused if I have to pay Orange or not. Here's my case:

 

My £35/month, 18-month mobile contract with Orange ended on 06/05/2008. I followed the 30-day rule notification to them and I was advised that my mobile connection to their network would end 6th of May 2008. And my mobile connection was indeed cut off on that day. Below is the chronology of what happened:

 

04/04/2008 - I notified Orange to end my 18-month mobile contract.

 

04/04/2008 - Orange VP for Customer Service sent me a letter, convincing me to stay with Orange and look at the latest Orange offerings which might fit my call/text lifestyle. That letter also included an explanation of the billing charging system - "Your service plan is currently billed one month in advance. If there's any credit on your account, this will appear in your bill after disconnection and will of course be refunded"

 

05/04/2008 - £46.15 bill was sent to me. I assume this was my last bill because the charging is done one month advance. It's not an itemized bill and I didn't care to check it on my account online for details because because of the advance charging. Just to clarify, my Orange mobile have almost no use to me since July 2007. Story about this I posted in this thread ---> (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed/107343-orange-lost-signal-my.html#post1031958). That £46.15 bill was £10 more than my usual £35 bill. Still, I didn't bother to check online because of the promise of refund.

 

21/04/2008 - That £46.15 bill was paid through auto debit from my bank account.

 

05/05/2008 - £53.39 bill was again issued to me with payment slip/bank giro credit attached.

 

10/05/2008 - I tried to access my online account to check the details of this amount but I found out that my account was already blocked using my password. Orange website was telling that I can only access my account by using the new password which they can send to my mobile. WTF?! My mobile number with Orange was already dead since 6th of May. How can they do that to me?! I've used BT accounts for 3 landline numbers already and I can still access my old accounts for my old home tel numbers. Why can't Orange do this?! They don't want me to see the details of what they are asking me to pay?

 

19/05/2008 - I stopped any Orange auto debit from my bank account.

 

25/05/2008 - Orange sent me a letter for the unpaid 'balance' and asking me to pay (£53.39) within seven days.

 

29/05/2008 - I contacted Orange customer service and my call was forwarded to Collection Department. The lady whom I spoke with told me that I was overcharged by Orange for about £34 in total for the last four months. So I asked why did they sent me another bill (£53.39) if I was overcharged by £34? She explained that because my mobile account was cut off a day before the last bill (£53.39) was issued, there was no way they could change it. She then asked me to pay the £53.39 immediately to avoid further action from their collection department and she promised that the £53.39 + £34 overcharging will be refunded to me this month of June.

 

So...should I pay Orange the £53.39 they are asking me to pay? If I don't pay, will Orange still refund me the £34 that they over charged me? I'm a bit hesitant to pay Orange more because I'm not sure if Orange will refund me and for how long. I don't have the details of that £53.39 because Orange already cut me off from accessing my online account and Orange can probably get away in not refunding me including the £53.39 if I pay them. Any advise? Thanks in advance.

Edited by exp1orer
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I was a customer with Orange from 1998 until April this year, had a great service from them, 3 phones on the account no problems what so ever, until November 2007... Problems were still not resolved when I finally disconnected, I was even invited to a meeting to try and get the problems resolved in person, which I attended and lots of promises made but none kept.

 

Basically was sent a bill for thousands and thousands this was due to a billing error which Orange fully admitted, but of course I never paid it, so Orange suspended outgoing service for none payment, Customer Service would remove the suspension, and no sooner it would be placed on again automatically.

 

Now after I have finally moved our 3 phones to another network, Orange have finally pulled the finger out and managed to sent a correct bill, which needless to say I will not be paying. Orange have been informed that it won't be paid, yet still chase me for it, even though I have a personally signed letter from Sanjiv Ahuja (Orange CEO) telling me the bill will be wrote off, Orange still sent it to a DCA.

 

Oh the joys of dealing with these people :)

Thanks

- Hobbie

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Under no circumstances should you speak with a Debt Collections Agency via telephone, request that all future correspondence is done in writing, a letter template for this can be located here.

 

Any views expressed are solely that of my own, any advice or information offered is provided in genuine good faith, and should be checked prior to acting upon.

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Hobbie, thank you very much for the quick reply. Your story definitely cleared everything. I won't pay Orange for the £53.39 they are asking me to pay. I would rather prefer to receive thousands of bills from them than having a hard time getting a refund for £34 overcharge + £53.39 overpayment. Thanks again. Cheers!

Edited by exp1orer
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  • 2 months later...

hello all, new here but had to post when i saw the difficulties with Orange - I had similar ones, dont owe them anything and have today had a letter from a debt collection agency - orange have agreed that I dont owe them anything and will refund the money. I cant tell you how angry I am as I spent £16 on premium rate calls, and had no internet connection for a couple of months, which they promised to reimburse but of course havent. I also couldnt get the MAC code out of them to transfer to another provider - now with BT and no problems, no premium rate number to call to speak to them and they are very nice when you do speak to them - that clinched it for me and Im happy with BT now.

 

I would like to now what I need to do to make sure this doesnt affect my credit rating - they have agreed that I dont owe them anything and promised to refund the money - though we'll see what happens!

 

 

I also want to share a freephone number to contact Orange Customer services 0800 0791050 - found this on the internet but it works and will enable us to contact them without lining their pockets further!

 

Thurgo

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I’d just leave it and let the bailiffs come, if there stupid enough to send round bailiffs to collect money you don’t owe then just show them any evidence you have that in fact you’ve overpaid orange then the bailiff who should have a direct line to these A-Holes from orange who say your indebt should be able to sort it out there and then with a simple phone call.

Remember your innocent so you wont have to pay nothing, not even bailiff visits so don’t let them scare you with bailiffs it’s the oldest trick in the book, orange obviously know you’ve overpaid them but choose to let you have to deal with it by making you ask for your money back rather then them dealing with it them self’s

 

 

However if in the unlikely event this ever goes to court then just plead your case, once a judge has the once over from it your gonna win hands down no worries but I very much doubt it will go that far cos soon as they start court proceedings they or their people will go through all the records in an attempt at building a case against you only to find they in fact actually owe you and nobody is silly enough to go to court when their certain to lose…:grin: remember its them who have to prove you guilty and they cannot.

 

I did exactly the same thing with a catalogue bill that was sent to me despite me sending the product back months earlier. It worked for me never even went to the bailiffs… Hope this helps:grin:

Edited by Manx7
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listen people

i know you are out raged and have bee done

but

 

for such a small ammount of money in comparrison would it not be better to pay and then get it back thirty days later.

the last thing you need is a default on your credit files.

i to had an orange account for about four years and they messed up big time. left hand not knowing what the rights doing.

i refused to pay, even though they said i would get it back in thirty days.

the resault was a default which took me six months to get removed.

is it realy worth the crap of a default for the sake of a month.

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Slightly OT but related to the last post: I quite often see suggestions that people should pay money they don't owe "so they don't get a default on their credit history"

 

In instances like this there is no default. The OP has finished dealing with Orange. If Equifax or Experian show a default for that account and you write to them to point out it's incorrect, and they refuse to remove it:

 

Who are CRAs accountable to? Is this simply defamation of character with both the CRA and the original contract party jointly liable? Is only the CRA liable? Does sending a notice of intent to sue for defamation of character result in the CRA removing the alleged default to be on the safe side?

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i know what you are saying but many people have had defaults on this forum for debts as far as they were concearned were settled.

most defaults are done automatic with very little manual intervention.

and many people will tell you getting a default removed is a real pain in the butt.

you will end up going back and forth from the creditor to the dca, and all the time the default remains on your credit file.

nobody wants to take the decision to remove the default.

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I'd agree with postggj. Pay up, then start the small claims procedure to get it back. You'll be without the money for about a month whilst you claim it back (along with any costs and fee's), whereas a default could stay on your credit file for a lot longer!

If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

Or send a cheque or postal order payable to Reclaim the Right Ltd.

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listen people

i know you are out raged and have bee done

but

 

for such a small ammount of money in comparrison would it not be better to pay and then get it back thirty days later.

the last thing you need is a default on your credit files.

i to had an orange account for about four years and they messed up big time. left hand not knowing what the rights doing.

i refused to pay, even though they said i would get it back in thirty days.

the resault was a default which took me six months to get removed.

is it realy worth the crap of a default for the sake of a month.

 

 

with the greatest of respect to yourself ..if everyone did what you are suggesting there would be bills for this that and the other because no one would complain and companies would walk all over people who are not able to or even willing to fight their corner..I can promise everyone on this forum...fight them at their own game..the county courts are there for you just as much as they are for the big rip of merchants companies..The last thing that big companies want is bad press and for them to drag people through expensive litigation when they know they are in the wrong would be commercial suicide..fight em herd and with all your might because as individuals we are just little people to them but if everyone fought them they would have to improve their services and make sure that they do not overcharge us and that the bill you recieve is correct and due!

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with the greatest of respect to yourself ..if everyone did what you are suggesting there would be bills for this that and the other because no one would complain and companies would walk all over people who are not able to or even willing to fight their corner..I can promise everyone on this forum...fight them at their own game..the county courts are there for you just as much as they are for the big rip of merchants companies..The last thing that big companies want is bad press and for them to drag people through expensive litigation when they know they are in the wrong would be commercial suicide..fight em herd and with all your might because as individuals we are just little people to them but if everyone fought them they would have to improve their services and make sure that they do not overcharge us and that the bill you recieve is correct and due!

 

I think you miss the point postggj was making. If you pay up then get the money back from them 30 days later, it's a lot less hastle than not paying up and getting a default on your credit file and having to fight tooth over nail to get that removed. He was not saying pay them and let them have your hard earned cash, never to be seen again. I know handing over money knowing you'll be requesting it back or taking them to small claims may sound backwards, but in the courts you will always seem to be the reasonable one and the company will always look like a bully providing you give the company enough notice and keep them informed of what you are doing or intend to do.

 

Write them a cheque for the cash, put it in an envelope with a letter saying "I do not feel I owe this, so unless you can prove it I will be requesting this back, via small claims court if necesarry" then send an LBA 7 days later, then take them to court 14 days after that. Within a month you have the cash back more than likely, credit rating in tact, and you'll be in controll the whole time.

 

To sum it up, if its a small amount, I'd rather the company owe me and have me thretening them than vice versa.

If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

Or send a cheque or postal order payable to Reclaim the Right Ltd.

to

923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE

 

 

Click here if you fancy an email address that shows you mean business! (only £6 and that will really help CAG)

 

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hi there locutus I understand fully what was being said but while ever you are paying incorrect bills and bowing down and paying what you know you don`t owe the company they will never improve their services and just keep making a mess of your account..

 

""i refused to pay, even though they said i would get it back in thirty days.""Quote postggj.

 

If that was the case you are being harrassed for money they already know you don`t owe them, and in fact they are asking you to do their jobs for them by making it easier for them to clear up a mess of their making!

could this not be construed as demanding money with menaces? if I did it in the street I would be arrested as doing such! just because they are big companies does`nt give them the right to bully people into parting with money they know is`nt owed to them.

 

easier is`nt always the way to go. as a often quoted proverb says "the right path is`nt always the easiest!"

Edited by Dave123456
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don`t worry about bailiffs.they are only doing their job!

 

A visit to your home by bailiffs is a frightening prospect for anybody, but, in this event, you do have legal rights. You don't have to let bailiffs into your house on their first visit. They can't force their way in, though if you have left a window or door unlocked, they are within their rights to enter your home in this way. A bailiff must also show you a warrant from the county court relating to the debt.

In certain circumstances, bailiffs can legally use force to enter your home. If, on their first visit, you grant them admittance in what the industry calls "peaceful" circumstances - usually to work out a repayment plan or to identify goods that could be sold to raise cash - it's in your interest to let them enter in the same way when they return. If you change your mind and decide not to pay, they have the right to break into your house and remove items, in what is known as a "walking possession agreement".

There are certain items they cannot touch: anything you use for work is off limits, as are your basic living requirements, such as a bed or oven.

It's important to distinguish between bailiffs and debt collectors. Many creditors use debt-collection companies, but their agents have no immediate legal powers to enter your home or take goods; they need a court order to use bailiffs.

 

 

I really hope that this post allays some fears for some people.

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easier is`nt always the way to go. as a often quoted proverb says "the right path is`nt always the easiest!"

Don't over complicate it, and keep the power in your hands. Paying up then forcefully chasing them for what they owe you involves no risk of defaults that if placed by them in error are still difficult to remove, and in this economic climate can cost a fortune in extra interest on any loans or credit cards.

If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

Or send a cheque or postal order payable to Reclaim the Right Ltd.

to

923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE

 

 

Click here if you fancy an email address that shows you mean business! (only £6 and that will really help CAG)

 

If you can't donate, please use the Internet Search boxes on the CAG pages - these will generate a small but regular income for the site

 

Please also consider using the

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