Thread: simba27 vs Lloyds TSB ###won.. plus £100 bonus!###

I filed the original claim for 300 + statutory 8% interest at MCOL using the wording from MoneySavingExpert. Lloyds entered their standard defence.

AQ's were dispensed with and the case was transferred to Uxbridge county court.

Shortly afterwards, the case was tranferred to the London Mercantile Court.

I have a small claims hearing hearing tomorrow (15/6/07) which is intended to give direction. I'm starting to get worried by some of the recent bank victories. At this point, all I can do (AFAIK) is go along and see what the judge has to say.

I haven't managed to find any T&Cs covering the period where my charges were taken (2002/09-2004/02) and this would seem to be a critical requiremnet. I have the 2004/06 current account charges page from the wayback machine and my old T&Cs from 1993-1995 (I have sent these to the evidence email address). Is there somewhere I can download the T&Cs relevant to my case?

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I went to Court today. When I arrived the Lloyds barrister informed me that Lloyds had settled my case yesterday. He said there was no point in staying, I could just go home.

I was very happy to hear that my claim had been settled, and I decided to stick around anyway to watch the other cases, because I'm coming back next month against Barclays.

I watched a few cases with interest, and then they called my name. This took me by surprise, but I went up to the front anyway.

Lloyds barrister told the judge that the case had been settled. The judge asked me when I had been informed of the settlement. I told him that the first I knew of it was when I arrived at court this morning. The barrister said that Lloyds had tried to phone me yesterday. The judge asked me if I had received a call and I replied that there were no messages on my answering machine.

The judge awarded in my favour and ordered Lloyds to pay me an extra £100 on the basis that they had made me take a day off work and come to court when they fully intended to settle. I'm glad I stuck around. Had I gone home as the Lloyds barrister suggested I would not have got this.

How lucky was that! I wonder if it was their intention to be sneaky.

I wanted to post my observations of the cases at the Mercantile today. It's the first time I've been to a court and it was a very interesting experience.

I was under the impression that this hearing was for directions on how the cases were to be tried. I was surprised that cases were actually being decided. I would advise anyone attending a similar hearing to be prepared for this.

The Lloyds service charges defence was not mentioned at all. Before the judge came in, the Lloyds barrister handed out a draft order to all the claimants, requiring a stay for the parties to seek mediation. I think the barrister thought that some people might get confused and think this order was something they had to comply with. But when he proposed the order, the judge told him in no uncertain terms that it was a waste of time since the bank was almost certainly going to settle at the end of it.

It seemed to be taken as read that the bank charges were unlawful. The judge's attitude to the defence barrister seemed to be along the lines of "Your client has settled lots of other cases, why not this one?". (He did NOT actually say that, but that is what I inferred).

The answer from the Lloyds barrister was invariably either that they had no received a schedule of charges, or that the schedule disagreed with the bank's schedule (ie. estimated claims)

In the first instance, where the claimant could provide correspondance to show that
they HAD sent Lloyds a schedule, the court decided in their favour. Otherwise they were ordered to provide the bank with a schedule and the bank was ordered to either pay up or contest the schedule.

In the second instance, the claimant was ordered to provide the bank with documents showing how they calculated their claim and to return if the bank did not settle.

I was thinking about the Lloyds "service charge" defence last night before my court appearance.

My argument (which I didn't have to use) is that it is not a service to me because it doesn't provide any benefit to me.

For instance, suppose I was attempting to buy something for 10 pounds and my account was five pounds short of the overdraft limit. If the so-called service was not provided then the payment would be refused. Firstly this would alert me that there was a problem with my account, and secondly I would make the payment with one of my other accounts. This causes no problem for me.

However, in the instance where the "service" is provided. The payment is made as normal, a charge of £30 is applied to my account and the first thing I know about it is 2 or 3 days later when the letter arrives in the post. In those 2 or 3 days I will have made other transactions and paid multiple charges. It is likely that my account will be at least 90 pounds over the limit and I will be paying a lot of extra interest on that money. So the "service" leaves me in a substantially worse position than if it had not been provided.

I honestly cannot think of any instance where this "service" could benefit me. Therefore I don't see how it can be defined as a service - except possibly in the way that a bull "services" a cow.

CONGRATULATIONS

Well Done

And thank you for all your interesting comments I am sure they will be useful to others8)

Jansus

NICE ONE & VERY WELL DONE!!

Hi and well done Simba

I have an allocation hearing date for 2nd July for my claim against Alliance and Leicester. I was recommended to read your thread from another user, and what interesting reading it makes. I am so nervous about the hearing and so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I have found out that another member has their hearing with the same judge on the same date and at the same time as mine but against another bank. How does that work?? Are you called upindividually, will there be several solicitors there?? What sort of prep would I need ??

Again well done and I'll keep you informed

Caza

Originally Posted by cazawilson

Hi and well done Simba

I have an allocation hearing date for 2nd July for my claim against Alliance and Leicester. I was recommended to read your thread from another user, and what interesting reading it makes. I am so nervous about the hearing and so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I have found out that another member has their hearing with the same judge on the same date and at the same time as mine but against another bank. How does that work?? Are you called upindividually, will there be several solicitors there?? What sort of prep would I need ??

Again well done and I'll keep you informed

Caza

Hi Caza,
I typed a response to this earlier today, but it seems to have disappeared so I'll try again.
There were about 30 cases booked for the 9:30 hearing. All the claimants sat at the back of the room and there was a barrister for each bank sitting at the front. The judge dealt with the cases one at a time, so unless you are unlucky enough to be first on the list you will see other cases being tried and you will know what to expect. When your turn comes up, they call your name, you go and sit at the front.

At my hearing, the judge was brilliant. He obviously knew that most of us had never been in court before and he explained everything as he went along and tried to make it easy for us. You just answer whatever questions the judge asks you. It's not as intimidating as you might think.

I've been thinking some more about the hearing I went to. It was supposed to be a directions hearing. I didn't expect cases to be tried. Maybe the banks didn't expect it either. Maybe that's why their defence was never brought up. Maybe their barrister had only been instructed to ask for a stay and had not been briefed on their defence. Just wild speculation.

Thanks Simba

Sorry to be a pain, but what sort of questions did they ask???

Caza

Originally Posted by cazawilson

Thanks Simba

Sorry to be a pain, but what sort of questions did they ask???

Caza

In my case it went something like this (from memory):
Mr James (Lloyds barrister): "This claim was settled yesterday, your honour"
Judge (to me): "When were you notified that your claim was being settled?"
Me: "Mr James told me when I arrived here about half an hour ago, sir"
Judge (to me): "Does the bank have your telephone number?"
Me: "Yes sir"
Judge (to me): "Does the bank have your address?"
Me: "Yes sir"
Judge (to barrister): "Why didn't you notify him sooner?"
Mr James: "We tried to telephone him at 10:40am yesterday, your honour"
Judge (to me): "Did you receive a telephone call?"
Me: "I was at work, but there was no message on my answering machine"
Judge (to barrister): "There was no good reason why you could not have told him sooner"
Judge (to me): "Did you have to take a day off work to come here today?"
Me: "Yes sir"
Judge (to me): "How much did it cost you to travel here?"
Me: "I don't remember"
Judge (to barrister): "I'm ordering you to pay (simba27) £100 for unreasonable inconvenience."
Me: "Thank you sir"

Some example questions from other cases:

"How much are you claiming?"
"Does that include interest?"
"When did you send the bank the schedule of charges?"
"Do you have copies of the correspondance?"

Usefull thread SIMBA27, I'm due to go to my father-in-laws prelim / directions hearing on the 5th of July so I will take everything I have with me.

Thanks for this, Hope I get a similar minded judge to you.

Hi simba27, How well prepaired were you??, Did you have your court bundle made up and with you when you attened court??. I think your thread was / is very helpfull to us all, lots of info to help us prepair for court. Well done!!.

hi you lucky thing, ive got a court date, and im trying to get my bundle together. Im not having any luck on getting hold of T&C for Lloyds the dreaded. I opened my account in April '98. Any ideas did you have to get you T&C?

Well done you. It is nice to hear that people are being successful. I have two claims going through with the courts at present. One I have a hearing date of the 17th August and this is in the Derby Court and the other one has asked me for more information (I think this is a court bundle). Can you help me please as I do not know what I am meant to send to the court in Birmingham. This has to be in by July 4th.

Simba

Congratulations on your win!

Can you actually found me where you found the T and C's in order that I can use them when/if I have file a Court Bundle?

Thanks

Tangel

Originally Posted by simba27

I filed the original claim for 300 + statutory 8% interest at MCOL using the wording from MoneySavingExpert. Lloyds entered their standard defence.

AQ's were dispensed with and the case was transferred to Uxbridge county court.

Shortly afterwards, the case was tranferred to the London Mercantile Court.

I have a small claims hearing hearing tomorrow (15/6/07) which is intended to give direction. I'm starting to get worried by some of the recent bank victories. At this point, all I can do (AFAIK) is go along and see what the judge has to say.

I haven't managed to find any T&Cs covering the period where my charges were taken (2002/09-2004/02) and this would seem to be a critical requiremnet. I have the 2004/06 current account charges page from the wayback machine and my old T&Cs from 1993-1995 (I have sent these to the evidence email address). Is there somewhere I can download the T&Cs relevant to my case?