Thread: reload's mum vs Barclays

Well, as my lab-rat like test case against Lloyds appears to be going along the identical lines everyone else gets, I finally mangaged to persuade my old dear to start against Barclays.

Subject access request sent 1st class recorded 05/06/06

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Well done and good luck to your mum.

Natalie

Got this response today from the DPAR:

Originally Posted by Peter Townsend

Dear reload's mum,

DATA PROTECTION ACT

We refer to your letter of 1st June, which was passed to this department for comment due to your request for certain information, relating to bank charges, under the terms of the Data Protection Act ["the DPA"].

Please be aware that the Bank is not under an obligation to present information according to any particular format. Therefore, your request to assemble a schedule of charges is turned aside. You may of course obtain this data from copy statements and these will be supplied to you shortly without charge on this occasion. As the Bank is providing copy statements on a complimentary basis your payment is returned herewith.

As regards your mention of "manual intervention", the DPA does not oblige the Bank to comment about internal policies and procedures. Furthermore, in the context of managing day to day transactions arising from out of order accounts, the Bank does not hold the information you have requested in a form that would be covered by the DPA. Whilst aggregated information is retained for statistical purposes, this would not constitute "personal data" under the DPA and therefore would not be covered by a s.7 DPA Subject access request. For the avoidance of doubt, the fact that we do not generally record information in a way that is caught by the provisions of the DPA, is in no way an admission that there was no such manual intervention.

Yours sincerely



Peter Townsent
Manager, Barclays Data Protection

Now, it's probably been commented on countless times in relation to this particular template response from Barclays - but bear with me, I'm new-ish to the Barclays part of the forum and haven't really absorbed any comments about this response.

From what I recall seeing though, whilst not breaking the DPA per se with their response they're certainly trying to make it appear that they're taking the moral high ground. The comment about "we're not under obligation to present information according to any particular format" could easily be interpreted as "You're trying to cause us more work" when in actual fact, especially with digitally stored information, it would be easier, simpler and less paperwork for them to just present us with the list of charges for that time period.

Also, RE: the comment on manual intervention. They're saying that "We're not going to allow you to see our records on manual intervention with your account, if they exist, but we're not admitting that there wasn't any."

Anyone else feel like commenting?

<taps foot, looks at clock, taps foot again>

Just a waste of paper and postage really.

Basically saying:

"Dear Reload,

we acknowledge your request and will effectively grant it in full by supplying your statements. We are too lazy to bother saving the rain forests and shareholder costs (cos we already make a mint from unlawful charges). Ya we probably intervened on your account, but have no real record, in the same way that when you walk into a branch and up to the counter we "manually intervene" via the bank teller, but don't really record this.

Oops, we've just realised, the whole thing about manual intervention is stupid. We are a bank. Therefore we have certain overheads. One of which is employing people, real live human beings, to provide our operations support. This is an accepted cost and overhead of any business. It is far too remote to attribute to you as an inidividual customer, I mean we would still have to employ physical entities even if you didn't go over your limit and incur charges. We are of course trying to reduce the number of human beings we employ, hence the automated services, Indian call centres, and online systems. But damn it. We still find that we have to actually employ real people to provide our service. And so this whole issue of manual intervention really is annoying us, because we would like to blame you the customer, but realise that this sounds ludicrous. Therefore, you are right, we don't have any record of "manual intervention" on your account, but we assure you it does take place.

Yours truly

Bank Employee

Signed by a computer inserted signature (but please note, that this classes as potential manual intervention as someone had to insert that signature, along with your address to the computerised template)"

Oh okay then. Thanks for your letter.

Ta for that Don

Sorry - should have said, was tapping foot in reference to Barclays dragging their heels over sending the statements

Barclays are the worst.

They specialise in time-wasting and delay..... they wait right until the last possible moment.

Just an idle 'bump'. Statements finally arrived today - nothing like leaving it till the last minute. Time to get the highlighter out...

Okay, okay, it didn't take me that long to total up the charges

Been a bit of dithering on the behalf of mother dear. She's decided to go for it, so prelim went off first class recorded Monday for £745. Here goes

Reload I am in the process of getting my Mother Dear to have a bash at this, already got my sister and her fella doing theirs, but Mom is still wary LOL. Bless her. Good luck to your Mum.

Blimey, nothing from the three outstanding for ages, then two in one day (Capital One, will type up in a moment).

Anyway, seemingly standard "acknowledgement of your complaint" letter:

Originally Posted by Mike Brophy

Dear reload's Mum,

Thank you for your letter received at this office on 20 September 2006. (NB: Sent on the 18th first class recorded, online track and trace records 20th delivery. Just wish Royal Mail were as together with my recent S.A.R - (Subject access request) to Lloyds...)

I am sorry you are unhappy with the charges you have incurred. Your comments are receiving attention and one of my team will contact you as soon as possible.

May I take this opportunity to explain that whilst we will endeavour to respond to you within timescales outlined in your letter, we cannot guarantee that we will do so.
Sometimes it does take longer to fully investigate a complaint. However we do aim to find a solution within four weeks. If we are not able to do so, we will always write to you explaining what is happening. A full report or an update on our progress will be sent to you within eight weeks.

Please refer to the enclosed leaflet which provides you with a more detailed explanation on how we will deal with this matter.

Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please do not hestitate to contact us on 0207 116 4561 or via Freephone 0800 282390.

Yours sincerely,

(pp'd line of a signature)

Mike Brophy
Head of Customer Relations

Oh, and good luck to yours too Mrs Charlton

Ah. So:

*YAWN*

Mind you, you never know, you could wait that long, couldn't you? I mean, they MUST be trying to work things out...

Originally Posted by Bookworm

Ah. So:

*YAWN*

Mind you, you never know, you could wait that long, couldn't you? I mean, they MUST be trying to work things out...

Bookworm you do crack me up

Reload thats the letter I had aswell....infact it might even have been from Mikey babe too. I considered giving them the 4 weeks for about...ummm...0.005 of a second.

Originally Posted by Barclays

Dear reload's mum,

RE: Sort code: xxxxxx, Account number xxxxxx

I refer to our letter dated of 25 September 2006.

May I say how sorry I am to learn that you feel the bank charges you have incurred are unfair. In your correspondence you have referred to elemnts which you feel support your claim. Barclays is aware of the information you have drawn to our attention. I must inform you, however, that we disagree with your view.

When an account is opened with us, our customer is provided with a copy of the terms and conditions relating to the use of their account; including details of our charges. This information clearly explains our obligations to our customers, as well as their obligations to us. If we make any changes to the terms and conditions, we provide details of these changes to our customers in line with the Banking Code. Details of our terms and conditions, along with our charging tariff, can be obtained at any of our branches., or via our internet site, www.woolwich.co.uk/barclays.co.uk (erm, what?).

Despite my comments above in relation to your views, on this occasion, and without any admissions of liability, I am willing to offer the sum of £375.00 towards the total amount you are seeking. This is with the cost and inconvenience inherent in a further dispute in mind and is intended as a gesture of goodwill, in full and final settlement of your complain. If you would like to accept my offer please sign and return the enclosed form in the pre-paid envelope provided. I will arrange for the payment to be credited direct to your account within seven working days of recepit of your acceptance at this office.

If you wish to discuss this letter, or you feel there are further issues I need to consider, please contact me on 020 7116 4561, or on our free phone number 0800 282 390. If you are dissatisfied with my proposal for resolving your complaint you may ultimately be eligible to refer to the Finiancial Services Ombudsman Service.

The leaflet sent with our letter of 25 September 2006 explains our complaints process and provides details regarding the Financial Ombudsman Service.

In accordance with our standard practice, if I do not hear from you to the contrary within eight weeks from the date of this letter, I shall assume that your complaint is resolved and close my file.

Yours sincerely

Laurence White
Customer Relations Manager
Enc: Acceptance slip, pre-paid envelope

Sooo... again looks like fairly standard proceedure on this one.

Thing is though, mother dear doesn't want the hassle of a court case - so she's asked me to accept it. And there I was looking forward to sinking my teeth into Barclays' ankle

Oh well, partial settlement is at least something I guess. I would though like to say - don't settle for it if you have the choice!