Thread: kateandpete V NatWest ***WON***

What an amazing site this is. I sent my Data Protection Act to Natwest yesterday and have just tracked it with Royal Mail. It has been delivered. Forty days is the 12th of July, so let's see what happens.
I've got quite a history with NW, they pulled my student account with 2000 pound overdraft in 2001 without warning (after having charged me lots of course). Did the same to my wife the next year. Charges on our joint account must run well over 1000. It's going to be a big claim.

I wrote the SAR - (Subject access request) - (Subject access request) - (Subject Access Request) for both our joint account and my old student account (luckily I still had the number). I guessed that as the data is on one person (me!) I only needed to include one 10 pound SAR fee.

I've noticed that someone on a recent thread wrote to their MP, Oliver Letwin. My MP here is Dennis MacShane (LAB - Rotherham) the former Europe minister who now writes a column for the Guardian. I reckon I could pen a letter if people think it's a good idea. Do we have anyone interested from that side of the House yet?

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I don't know if anyone of that side is up to speed, but the more MPs that know that their constituents are unhappy, the bigger the chance of something being done about it I assume. I would pen the letter, and see what he replies with. I'll keep you posted when Letwin replies to my NW's inability to send statements securely letter.

and finally, welcome aboard

Mickie

OK, have sent letter to my MP. I used www.writetothem.com. Natwest have received the DPA. And so .... we wait.......

Ok, everyone. Had a response from my MP, he's mighty quick ...

Thank you. You make important and serious points and I am forwarding your letter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and will let you know of any reply I receive.
Rt Hon Denis MacShane MP

So it's going to the Man In Charge
My letter was basically the template, but with some extra bits.

Oh dear.

So I went down to the Co-op to try and open a parachute account. I thought I'd try for a regular current account rather than a basic account as my credit record was surely fine at the moment. 'Twas declined . The very nice lad suggested as it was a joint account I was trying to open I get my wife to apply for a sole account and then apply for sole-joint mandate. So I got the other half to do this (but with Smile as they offer 3% interest on positive balances (if we ever have any!)). That went fine, but when we applied for sole-joint it was declined. So we now have a parachute account, but only in my wife's name.

My suspicions rising, I applied to Experian and Equifax for my credit reports.....

On Experian ....

Mr kateandpete, kateandpete's house
DOB
HSBC BANK - CARD SERVICES, CREDIT CARD / STORE CARD
Started 06/07/98 Default GBP96 Defaulted 12/08/04 Current Balence GBP737
Status history 8
File updated for the period to 16/04/06

Defaulted accounts are kept on file for six years from the date of default, even if they are subsequently marked as satisfied by the lender.

On Equifax ....

INSIGHT INFORMATION
HSBC PLC (CARD SERVICES) (I) Credit Card MR kateandpete
Terms 0@GBP0 Monthly
Balances Limit GBP 1000
Start GBP 0
Current GBP+737
Default GBP 96
Effective Dates Start 06/07/1998
Default 08/2004
End 12/08/2004
Birth kateandpete's birthday
Insight Last Updated 07/05/2006
Monthly Status D


In August of 2004 (when this occurred) we were in the middle of a period of two years where we lived in the USA. At this time we moved house from one address in the States to another. USPS believe it or not is even worse than Royal Mail and some post did go AWOL at the time. I remember at the time phoning HSBC to tell them that our "temporary overseas addresss" had changed, but that our "permanent UK address" was unchanged (my father-in-law's house). They told me I was behind with repayments and I needed to speak with their people-who-deal-with-naughty-people department. I did and we agreed that I would pay GBP 50 each month to the account. They told me not to use the card (I hadn't in years anyway), but said as long as I continue to make payments all would be OK. There was certainly no mention of the word "default". I don't have any default notices, but i do have (some) credit card statements. The agreement was renewed without problem in January of this year. I have the letter when this happened and it does not mention default anywhere.

I have made an agreement similar to this with another bank for a student account that I used to have and they certainly haven't defaulted me for making an agreement.

This is all a slight problem for us as I have a new job and am moving house in 4 weeks. I need to rent a house in another part of the country and have a suspicion that I won't be able to as I won't pass any credit checks. We would also like to get a mortgage sometime before we die.

I really need to get this set right, I have written this letter that I found a template for on the web....

kateandpete's house
HSBC Bank Plc
365 Chartwell Square
Southend-On-Sea
SS99 2UU

20th June 2006

Dear Sir / Madam,

Account Number: **** **** **** ****

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit reference files from Experian and Equifax I was concerned to note that the Bank has placed a “Default” notice against my credit card account listed above.

Further to this I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.

1.You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a ₤1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number ………………….
2.You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice.
3.Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on.

I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.

Yours faithfully,



kateandpete

Before I send this (recorded, of course), I'd really appreciate it if anyone can give me some advice. Is this the right way to go about this? Does anyone have a similar experience? There is still GBP 617 owed on the account. Is there any way I could use this as a lever?

PS. My keyboard has no pound on it, so i've used GBP!


PPS. Do I need to start a new thread??!!

PPPS. How do I alter the title of this thread? I tried editing the first post in the advanced section, but no luck. Does it need to be modded?

Am I better submitting a "notice of dispute" to the credit reference agencies and letting them chase HSBC, or not. Or both?

Does anyone have any advice?
Should I send the letter??

So, I've recieved a letter back from my MP that Ed Balls wrote. He is a minister at the Treasury...

Thank you for your of 4th June to Gordon Brown enclosing correspondence from your constituent, kateandpete about bank charges. I am replying as i have Ministerial responsibility for this policy area.

I am sorry to hear of kateandpete's concerns about bank charges.

The setting of charges and their application is a commercial decision for each individual bank. However, it is clearly important that consumers and businesses are aware of the charges they face. The Banking Code sets standards of good practice for banks and is the subject of independent review.

The Banking Code requires that signitories give their customers details of any charges for the day-to-day running of their account when they open it, that they inform their customers personally if they increase any of these charges or introduce a new charge and sets notice periods before changes are made to terms and conditions. The signitories are also required to tell customers the charge for any other service or product before they provide that service or product, and at any time the customer asks.

With regard to the terms and conditions that set out these default charges, your constituent may be aware that the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has been investigating credit card default charges. As a result of this investigation, the OFT wrote to leading banks in 2005 and argued that the banks' credit card default charges were excessive, challenging the fairness based on existing rules set out in the 'Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999'. The OFT have recently issued a further statement, setting out their views. The OFT recognise that there is a read across from credit card to other default charges in consumer contracts such as bank overdrafts and mortgages.

The OFT statement also contains immediate advice for consumers. It makes the position clear; in particular that while the OFT have set out their views that does not have the force of a court decision. Consumers contemplating legal action need to take their own legal advice.

In addition, all banks in the UK are required to follow prescribed complaints procedures for their customers. Unsatisfied customers are able to make a formal complaint to the bank concerned.

Please pass on to kateandpete my thanks for taking the trouble to make me aware of his concerns.

Yours sincerely,

Ed Balls MP

Well, personally I don't think there's anything here we don't already know. He is hardly eager to fight for working people. Typical New Labour!

I think that you should tell him - ask balls and you get balls.

It is rubbish.

I think that you should ask him if he is truly satisfed with this answer and to be treated with such contempt by the minister

Yes, indeedy.
Here is the letter i have just written in response.

Dear Denis MacShane,

Many thanks for your letter dated 29th June enclosing Ed Balls' reply to my letter dated 3rd June. I do appreciate the time you have taken to pursue the issue of unlawful penalty charges with the Treasury.

I must admit to being somewhat disappointed with the Ministers response. I will address his points in turn.

I am aware of the standards set out in The Banking Code, but I feel that a voluntary agreement that encourages self-regulation is not relevant when laws, not guidelines, are being breached.

I am also aware of recent statements made by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) about credit card penalty charges and that that their views cover all penalty charges levied in the consumer banking sector. Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that the OFT is failing to use its powers effectively. They state that their views do not have the force of a court decision, however in their guidance to lenders on the required general conditions of fitness to hold a consumer credit licence, the OFT states:

"You must trade honestly, lawfully and fairly with consumers. As a general guide, you will not be granted a licence unless you can show the OFT that you can be trusted to maintain this standard."

and

"You must keep up the same standards after you have been granted a licence. The fitness requirement continues for the duration of the licence, and the OFT will keep your fitness under review. Any relevant evidence will be considered carefully. Where necessary, a licence may be revoked or suspended, or compulsory changes made to it."

A court judgement stating that practices are illegal is not required in these circumstances:

"Unfair business practices not involving convictions or breaches of legislation may also result in your licence being refused or revoked."

(above quotes taken from "OFT guidance on fitness conditions")

If the OFT considers penalty charges to be unlawful under the 'Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999', then they must surely threaten suspension of the banks' consumer credit licences unless they make the necessary changes required to comply with the law. In not doing so, they leave no other option but for consumers to initiate their own legal proceedings against the banks. This is time consuming and costly, both for consumers and the courts.

For these reasons, I wish to make a complaint against the Office of Fair Trading. I also ask that you raise this issue in Parliament and pass this complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman for further investigation.

Yours sincerely,

kateandpete

Hope it's OK everyone

By the way I sent a reminder to Natwest a few days ago saying they had 16 days to comply or it would be information commissioner time

I'm going to start a new thread in the 'General' section for the dealings with OFT / Ombudsman.
I'll keep this thread just for my NW claim. BTW they have 3 days left to comply with DPA.

Hi and welcome.
You can definitely go back 6 years. Take a look in the FAQ section for more info - i spent a few days just absorbing all the issues before I started and found a lot of my questions answered there.

The 6 year rule is from the "statute of limitations". However, there are some more experienced people on here who are testing this limit. One person is on court this week i think (can't remember who), seeking to argue that the banks have deliberately concealed the fact that penalty charges are unlawful. If he/she succeeds in this then the Statute falls and we can all claim back as far as we want. Watch this space!

So the Data arrived on the 14th - it was sent on the 12th, bang on the deadline. Needless to say, there were 3 months statements from 2001 missing and nothing about manual interventions. So I sent Alanfromderby's lba giving them a further 7 days to comply. I totted up the charges for the rest of the 6 year period. £2131 plus £727.09 interest (thanks vampiress for the spreadsheet!) = £2858.09. Sent off preliminary letter for this amount. Now we wait again ....

I've been moving house, hence the silence, but now it's time for an update. I received nothing back from the preliminary, so sent the claim lba (not to be confused with the DPA LBA!) on 31/07/06. Received back the usual fob-off from Higley on 03/08/06. So I've filled in my MCOL ready to send off on the 15th when the 14 days i gave them will expire.

Following your thread with great interest...
Good luck to you!!!

Can anyone answer this? I sent my lba and promptly received a fob-off letter. The letter didn't stall for time or anything, just said "am disappointed you are contemplating legal action against the bank. Should you decide to go ahead, please ensure that any proceedings are served on our Registered Office address, which appears at the foot of this letter." This is basically, "come and have a go". Do i still need to wait for the 14 days to be up before submitting MCOL now they've said, "we ain't paying"???