Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Has any one kept old copies of HSBC/Midland Personal Bank Account T&Cs? If it would be possible to get them posted on the site somehow, this would be a very valuable resource.
If anyone has any from 1995 - or any time since really - I would be eternally grateful if they could post them, or if it's a question of typing them out, then at least the bits that deal with overdraft limits and charges.
I've been meaning to ask this for a while, and I've actually sent a CPR part 18 request to HSBC for all past variations of T&Cs for my account (I've been allocated to fast track so I assume part 18 applies ot my case), but I haven't had any response yet, and anyway it strikes me that this would be a very handy resource for everyone on the site.
The judge seemed to think it would be a good idea to have a look at the current T&Cs published by Lloyds, which are by now very carefully drafted so as conceal the penal nature of the charges, and base his interpretation of the contract on an uncritical face-value reading of those!
I've only got a handful of fairly recent documents stating or amending HSBC's T&Cs - I'll post the relevant bits as soon as I've scanned and OCRed them.
(Any mods/admins reading - this process would be useful for other banks too, and the appeal for info could possibly be made in a more prominent place or in a more organised way...just a tentative suggestion)
We have made changes to our Personal Banking terms and conditions. The clauses we have changed are set out in full in this leaflet which you should read and retain.
The new clauses will take effect as follows:
· On 1 September 2003 for existing 16 and 17 year old Bank Account customers.
· On 1 October 2003 for all other existing customers.
· On 1 June 2003 for new customers.
7 Borrowing from us Clause 7.1 has changed to:
You should always keep your Bank Account in credit unless we have agreed an overdraft with you. We understand that occasionally you may accidentally overdraw your Bank Account by a small amount without an agreed limit. If we allow this to happen, we will not charge you our applicable fee for reviewing overdrafts not agreed in advance as long as your Bank Account is not more than £50 overdrawn for a total period of 14 days in any one month. Month, in this instance, does not mean a calendar month but begins on the date your account is opened. For example, if you opened your account on 20 January. one month will be from the 20th of each month to the 19th of the following month. We reserve the. right to alter or remove the £50 limit or the 14 day time period in any one month period from time to time. We will notify you of a change to, or removal of, these limits as set out in clause 10.5.2. Clause 7.2 has changed to:
You must not borrow on tour Instant Access Savings account, Morrisons Bonus Savings account, High Interest Savings Account. HSBC Premier Savings Account. Basic Bank Account or Amanah Bank Account. Clause 7.7 has changed to:
We may decide not to pay a cheque or other item or to allow a card transaction it' it would make your account go overdrawn or, for Bank Accounts or Foreign Currency Current Accounts, it would go overdrawn without an agreed overdraft limit or over any agreed overdraft limit. In respect of Bank Accounts this would include standing orders. Direct Debits or bill payments which you had previously instructed us to make or Switch/Maestro transactions you have made. If this happens, we may charge our fee for returned items. Clause 7.10 has changed to:
We may charge interest at our Standard Overdraft Rate whenever your account (excluding Amanah Bank Account) goes overdrawn on the amount by which your account is overdrawn. We may continue to charge this rate until there is a cleared credit balance on your account. Clause 7.11 has changed to:
or Foreign Currency Current Accounts, if a euro account goes overdrawn without an agreed overdraft, or if you go over an agreed overdraft limit. we will charge interest at our Standard Overdraft Rate on the amount by which the account Is overdrawn or the overdraft limit is exceeded. For all other foreign currencies apart from euros, overdrafts above the agreed overdraft limit will be charged at 7% over the appropriate Currency Base Rate. We will continue to charge the appropriate interest rate until there is a cleared credit balance on your account or until the cleared balance on tour account is back within your agreed limit. Clause 7.12 has changed to:
Our Standard Overdraft Rate may vary and is on display in all our branches. We will give you notice of any changes in the same way as we give notices of changes in credit interest rates under 11.1. Our Currency base rates can vary from day to day as market rates change. Please ask your branch for details of the current rates. Clause 7.13 has changed to:
As well as charging interest under 7.10, we may also charge our applicable fee for reviewing overdrafts not agreed in advance on each occasion that your Bank Account goes overdrawn, or further overdrawn, without an agreed overdraft. We may also charge this fee when your Bank Account goes over, or further over, any agreed overdraft limit. This fee is to cover our management and administration costs (see the relevant price list for details of the fee). A new clause 7.14 has been added:
You should not borrow on your Amanah Bank Account. If your Amanah Bank Account goes overdrawn, or further overdrawn, we will charge you an overdraft review fee to cover our management and administration costs (see the relevant price list for details of this fee). Debit interest is not applicable to Amanah Bank Accounts. Clause 7.14 has been renumbered 7.15 and has changed to:
As well as charging interest under 7.10, and the applicable fee as set out under 7.13 above, if we pay a cheque which has been guaranteed by your Switch/Maestro debit card or a Switch/Maestro transaction you have made and as a result tour Bank Account goes overdrawn or goes overdrawn without an agreed overdraft limit or over any agreed overdraft limit, we may also charge you our guaranteed payments fee (see the relevant price list for details of this fee). This fee will also apply if we pay a cheque guaranteed by your Switch/Maestro debit card or a Switch/Maestro transaction you have made and as a result your Amanah Bank Account goes overdrawn. Clause 7.15 is now 7.16 has changed to:
Before we deduct interest as set out in clauses 7.10 and 7.12 and/or charges as set out in clauses 7.13 7.14 above from your account. we will give you at least 14 days' notice of how much we are going to deduct.
Subsequent clauses have been renumbered. Clause 7.16 is now 7.18 and has changed to:
Every day, we will work out the interest you owe (if applicable) on the cleared debit balance of your account. It will be deducted from your account either monthly or quarterly (or half yearly for Foreign Currency Accounts other than those in euro interest on euro accounts will be deducted quarterly) and depending on the terms we have agreed with you, or if we have to make demand.
9 Cards The introduction has changed to:
These terms cover the use of a debit card (Switch/Maestro or Solo) and a savings card, or a Basic Bank Account card. All cards can be used to withdraw cash from our self-service machines in the UK, offshore and from self-service machines abroad operated by most members of the HSBC Group. Please ask us for further details. Debit cards, savings cards and Basic Bank Account cards can be used to withdraw cash from self-service machines in the UK and offshore operated by other financial institutions if such machines display the LINK Iogo. Debit cards can also be used to withdraw cash from self-service machines abroad operated by other financial institutions if such machines display the Cirrus or Maestro logo. Please see 9.2.5 regarding charges for using such machines. Switch/Maestro and Solo debit cards can be used to pay for goods and services with retailers and other suppliers displaying the appropriate Switch/Maestro or Solo logo in the UK and offshore or the Maestro logo abroad. Switch/ Maestro debit cards can also be used to guarantee your cheques (in the UK and offshore only) but Solo cards cannot. If you have a debit card with only one or some of these functions or if you have a savings card or a Basic Bank Account card only the relevant parts of the terms and conditions in 9 will apply. You may use your card to obtain the services mentioned in 9 and any other service we may provide you from time to time. All these services will he subject to such additional terms and such charges as we may notify you. We may. at our discretion. withdraw or change such terms or charges. We will tell you about changes on our Rates and Charges notice in our branches or in the national press or by post (which includes statement messages). We will tell you when the changes come into effect. We may also agree separate terms with you in writing. If a change is to your disadvantage, we will give you 30 days' notice by post before we make the change. We may make any other change immediately and tell you about it within 30 days. If we make a disadvantageous change, you may. at any time up to 60 days from the date we tell you of the change, switch
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your account or close it. You will not have to pay any additional charges or interest for doing this during this period. Over the next few years there will be a smooth and gradual transition of the Switch brand to Maestro, at no cost or inconvenience to consumers.
This move will bring great advantages both in the UK and when you go abroad. You will he able to use your debit card world-wide, over 7 million stores abroad and growing, and over the internet just look out for the one internationally recognised name. You will be able to do anything that you can currently do with your card. Clause 9.1.1 has changed to:
If we accept your application for an account on which a card is issued or if we are replacing or renewing a card, we will issue you with a card suitable for use with the account. On our Bank Account and Amanah Bank Account, we issue Switch/Maestro or Solo debit cards. We normally issue Solo debit cards to customers aged 16 and 17, but we may at our discretion issue Switch/Maestro debit cards. On our Basic Bank Account we issue Basic Bank Account cards. On our Instant Access Savings account and our Morrisons Bonus Savings account, you can apply for a savings card if you are 11 years of age or over. We do not currently issue cards on High Interest Savings Accounts or HSBC Premier Savings Accounts. However, we reserve the right to issue you with a card to use with these accounts in the future on such terms and conditions that we may advise you of. Clause 9.1.2 has changed to:
If you request us to, or we issue you with, a replacement card before your existing card's expiry date, e.g. on a change of a name, you Will only he able to use your existing card for 30 days after the date we send you your replacement card. Clause 9.1.3 has changed to:
We will issue you with a PIN. We will not reveal your PIN to anyone but you. You can use your PIN with your card for withdrawing money and using other services available from self-service machines. You may also be asked by a retailer or other supplier to enter your PIN into a secure PIN pad when you pay in person for goods and services with your Switch/Maestro debit card. Please also see clauses 9.6 and 9.11. Clause 9.2.2 has changed to:
You must not use your debit card to borrow from us on your Bank Account unless you are 18 or over and an overdraft has been agreed separately. You must not use your debit card to borrow from us on your Amanah Bank Account. You must not use your Solo debit card or your Switch/Maestro debit card (if applicable) to borrow on your Bank Account if you are aged 16 or 17. You must not use your Basic Bank Account card to borrow on your Basic Bank Account. You must not use your savings card to borrow on your Instant Access Savings account or your Morrisons Bonus Savings account. If your account goes overdrawn or, for Bank Accounts held by customers who are 18 and over, it goes overdrawn without an agreed overdraft or goes over any agreed overdraft limit, we may charge interest (if applicable) at our Standard Overdraft Rate. We may also/alternatively charge our applicable fee for overdrafts not agreed in advance. Please also see 7.10, 7.12 and 7.13. Clause 9.2.7 has changed to:
You can obtain details of the balance and available balance on your account from some of our self-service machines in the UK and offshore by using your card. We would also refer you to clauses 2.5 and 5.2. Clause 9.3.2 has changed to:
If any of your cards are lost, stolen, or no longer in your possession, or if you know or suspect that someone has used or tried to use any of your cards or that someone else knows your PIN or that your debit card details are likely to be misused, please tell us as soon as you can by using our emergency 24 hour telephone number 08456 007 010. If you are calling from abroad, call +44 1442 422 929 or contact the international operator. A textphone service is available for customers with hearing and/or speech impairments 08457 125 563. In the interests of security, your call will be recorded when you telephone us. We may ask you to confirm the position in writing to your branch or to the following address: Lost and Stolen Card Services, Chartwell House, 365 Chartwell Square, Southend-on-Sea SS99 2UU. Clause 9.3.5 has changed to:
If we have issued you with a PIN, you must take all reasonable precautions to prevent fraudulent use. These include but are not limited to:
· destroying the PIN advice immediately after receipt, and
· never writing your PIN on your card or any other item normally kept near your card, and
· never writing your PIN in a way that can be understood by someone else, and
· if you change your PIN to a number which is more familiar to you, not choosing numbers that may be easy to guess, eg, 1234, 4444, your date of birth or your telephone numbers, and
· shielding the key pad at self-service machines or the secure PIN pad at premises of retailers or other suppliers when entering your PIN and undertaking transactions, and
· never telling your PIN to anyone else. not even to the police or to any member of our staff, and
· not disclosing your PIN for mail order payments or when paying for goods and services over the telephone or through the internet, and
· telling us immediately if you suspect someone else knows your PIN by calling us on 08457 404 404, and
· complying with all reasonable instructions we issue regarding keeping your PIN safe. Clause 9.4.1 has changed to: Our liability
We will be responsible for any money lost due to unauthorised transaction(s) unless you are liable under Clause 9.4.2 below. We will add back to your account any amount deducted including any related interest (if applicable) and charges. We will have no further liability to you. You must, however, inform us under Clause 9.3.2 above as soon as you know that your card has been lost, stolen, is no longer in your possession or if you know or suspect that someone has used or tried to use any of your cards or that someone else knows your PIN or that your debit card details are likely to be misused. You must also cooperate with us and the police in our efforts to investigate any unauthorised transactions you report on your account. If you are asked to report any unauthorised transactions to the police, this must be done within 7 day's of instruction. Clause 9.6.1 has changed to:
If your debit card has the relevant function, you may use it to make payments to retailers and other suppliers displaying the Switch/Maestro, Solo logo in the UK and offshore or the Maestro logo abroad. The retailer or other supplier may also allow you to obtain cash from them using your Switch/Maestro or Solo debit card. You may be required to sign a sales voucher or order form showing the number and other details of your Switch/Maestro or Solo debit card. You may, alternatively, be required, if you are making a payment by your Switch/Maestro debit card (but not a Solo debit card), to enter your PIN into a secure PIN pad at the premises of a retailer or other supplier.
The retailer or other supplier may accept your instructions to make payments using your debit card over the telephone or by mail order if you give them the number and other details of your card. The retailer or other supplier
I've never done this before and have been looking through the forum to try and locate some old terms and conditions for HSBC current account. I can see that there has been mail about posting them to the site. But I can't see if anyone has actually posted them as a PDF. Can someone point me in teh right direction.
Dear Sir or Madam,
Claim Number: *******
Re. Account number: ******** Sort code: ********
I am writing to request that you send me all documented information in relation to myself and my bank account that is in your possession. I am in the process of claiming against you for what I would describe as unlawful charges that you have applied to my account over the last six years. What I specifically request from yourselves are the Terms & Condition relevant to my account since it has been opened. I am aware that the Terms & Conditions have recently been amended by Lloyds TSB in light of the continuing legal fight against you in relation to what I believe to be unlawful bank charges. I therefore request the terms and conditions issued to me when the account was originally opened and also any amendments in these over the length of my account.
Please find enclosed a cheque for the maximum statutory charge of £10. I feel that I am entitled to this information by law under the data protection act, and await your reply.
I look forward to your response within 40 calender days, as Lloyds TSB is obliged to reply under the Data Protection Act. If not I shall seek remedy from the Information Commissioner.
Yours faithfully,
Great, thanks, I have written to the bank to request copies of the T & C's since the account was opened. I have threatened to inform the Judge if they do not respond as this would be against the CPR and general spirit of disclosure in relation to Court proceedings.
Is anyone able to let me know what a CPR 18 is for requesting the past T & C's from HSBC bank, as i need them for my Court bundle as DG not responding to my request.
HELP PLEASE - Terms and Conditions
/Midland Personal Bank Account T&Cs? If it would be possible to get them posted on the site somehow, this would be a very valuable resource.
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