Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Junglistboi Novitiate

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    Default What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    I am in the process of claiming back approx £5,500 for HSBCicon inc fees. I returned my allocation questionaire to my local county courticon about 1 month ago and yesterday called them to see what was going on. They told me the case had been referred to the judge and I would hear something within 5 days.

    This morning I received a letter (which I have not yet seen, mum opened it on the phone) stating that I need to provide more concise information relating to the claim and referring to CPR 16.4 (1)!!!!! I have no idea what this means and am completely lost.

    I am also a little worried that I read on another site one lady lost £2000 off her claim for not doing this correctly. I know this is a hasty post seeing as I havent read the letter myself but I am just a bit worried as the letter says I need to return this information by the 18th May or my case will be thrown out!

    Any information is greatly appreciated, Thanks very much


  2. #2
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1)Particulars of claim must include –
    (a)a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;
    (b)if the claimant is seeking interesticon, a statement to that effect and the details set out in paragraph (2);
    (c)if the claimant is seeking aggravated damages or exemplary damages , a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them;
    (d)if the claimant is seeking provisional damages, a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them; and
    (e)such other matters as may be set out in a practice direction.

    This is what is reffered to. As for what you have done wrong with your particulars of claim, you should send a PM (private message) to a moderator and they will help with details. Don't panic yet. Loads of time to sort it out before the 18th.



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  3. #3
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Hi, just did a search on the 16.4 (1) and this is what I found:-

    16.4 (1)Particulars of claim must include –
    (a)a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;
    (b)if the claimant is seeking interesticon, a statement to that effect and the details set out in paragraph (2);
    (c)if the claimant is seeking aggravated damages (GL) or exemplary damages (GL) , a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them;
    (d)if the claimant is seeking provisional damages, a statement to that effect and his grounds for claiming them; and
    (e)such other matters as may be set out in a practice direction.


    I hope that this helps.

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  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Junglistboi Novitiate

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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Hi yeah that does help a little tahnsk but in terms of what I actually need to prepare I am stuck. I have follwed the money saving expert sites advice step by step so why has nobody else received this? Surely I have provided all this information already no?


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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Like I said, send a private message to a moderator together with your POCicon's and let them have a look and tell you whats missing or wrong!



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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Unfortunately I don't know much about the Money Saving Expert site so I don't know what you have been advised to do. If you post your POCicon on here then someone could have a look and see what is actually missing.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Or you can PM a moderator like freaky says.

    If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales


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  8. #8
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    We have seen this a few times with the MSE particulars and schedule of claim, they are not as detailed as the CAGicon documents and obviously some of the District Judges donít think its detailed enough.

    Download the CAGicon templatesicon from the libraryicon and compare them with what you have submitted and see if this answers your question.

    pete


  9. #9
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Ok I am getting there (slowly). Yeah the letter basically says I need to 'set out a concise statement of the facts. (Stylised particulars do not constitute compliance)'

    I remember when filling in the MCO claim form in the particulars of claim section I could not fir in all the text it was advised from the money saving expert website. I removed the bit I perceived to be of least importance so I could get the majority of the text on there. This I feel may be my donwfall although I could see no other option at the time. Here is what I put

    Between the dates of 15/02/01 and 17/10/06
    the Defendant applied numerous default
    charges to the Claimant?s bank account.
    The charges applied constitute an unfair
    penalty under the Unfair Terms in Consumer
    Contracts Regulations, which state: ?A term
    is unfair if it requires any consumer who
    fails his obligation to pay a
    disproportionately high sum in
    compensation?. The amount charged does not
    reflect the cost of the breach.
    Under the County Courts Act 1984, the
    claimant is entitled to interesticon at a rate
    of 8% per annum from the date they were
    first deprived of the money to the date of
    this claim. This amounts to a total sum of
    £914.37, continuing to accrue at the
    statutory daily rate of 0.021% until
    judgment or earlier payment.
    The Claimant therefore asks the court to
    enter judgment in their favour for the sum
    of £4284 plus interest, amounting to a
    total of £5198.37.

    The letter also states I need to set out the particulars of the claim in plain english. Surely this is plain enough no? I am presuming there is just something I need to add.

    Thanks guys



  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder Junglistboi Novitiate

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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Ah ha, Castlebest you're a legend! How just found the POCicon templateicon in the libraryicon and it is a lot more in depth than what I was advised to put by the money saving expert website. Also I need to send a letter outlining the charges to the court in question.

    Guess i'll get that together and send it off and hopefully that'll keep the judge happy. Thanks for the help guys i'll be back to update when I hear more from the court. kepp up the good work


  11. #11
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    No problems Jung, good luck

    pete


  12. #12
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Castlebest View Post
    We have seen this a few times with the MSE particulars and schedule of claim, they are not as detailed as the CAGicon documents and obviously some of the District Judges donít think its detailed enough.

    Download the CAGicon templatesicon from the libraryicon and compare them with what you have submitted and see if this answers your question.

    pete
    Castlebest. You are very anti Money Saver for some reason. Surly all sites that help people less knowledgeable than the ĎLegendí is a good thing?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Div MSE have it wrong in some areas and we clean up the mess.

    Im not anti MSE they have done a good publicity job but I wish they would use CAGicon documentation which is right instead of publishing documentation that the district judges throw out.

    How many people have used MSE documentation, not forund the CAGicon website and had their claims struck out? whats the point of making people aware if you cant make them win too?

    Thats one reason the banks wont change because misinformed people loose and the banks win.

    pete


  14. #14
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    I wish Martin would use a name we can recognise when he comes callin <laffin> and stop this silly "who is best" competition.

    We are all trying to do the same thing, get our money back, I dont give a damn about MSE or BBC or even CAGicon.

    Just do the job you say you can do and listen to people who know the facts like I do.

    CAGicon members win

    pete


  15. #15
    Div
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    OK Castlebest, I get your point and I bow down to your superior knowledge as a Barrack Room Lawyer.

    Please donít Barrack me into submission though and have your friends tell me to crawl back to where I came from because I made a comment or two, one very tongue-in-cheek.

    Chill out Pete, take a pill and have a massage! You must spend a lot of time making posts and it probably helps many people but donít let your funny-bone become dislocated.

    Keep up the good work that you do Ė it's therapy for you.

    Div



  16. #16
    Div
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Junglistboi View Post
    Ah ha, Castlebest you're a legend!
    I am new to CAGicon and I thought that "Legend" was another name for Castlebest Pete.

    I did not mean to cause offence or exepect to be so heavily beaten into submisson.

    Submissive Slave Div


  17. #17
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Well all you have done is report posts since you registered, seems to me like you have an agenda?






    I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Pete's right - unfortunately we see time and time and time again, claimants who have used the MSE templatesicon initially, then come over here for advise after the court have threatened to strike out their claim.

    MSE is useful for other things and its done a good job of publisising the whole issue, but the advice regarding bank charges is flaky to say the least. For instance, they tell you that you should request 8% interesticon from the very first letter, which is completely wrong.

    Anyhow, yes, you need to substitute your POCicon for a fuller more adequate version. Your POC needs to concisely set out the facts of your claim and disclose its basis in law. Many people would actually argue that MCOL is not suitable at all for these types of claims, although we don't generally have a problem when our templateicon is used and a schedule of charges are sent by post at the same time.

    Use the N1 POC, rather than the MCOL one -
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-claim-n1.html
    And make sure you attach a schedule of charges.

    I take it this is Hitchen county courticon, or St Albans?

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  19. #19
    Div
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Quote Originally Posted by livelylad View Post
    Well all you have done is report posts since you registered, seems to me like you have an agenda?
    Thank you Mr Moderator for your support.

    The responses I have received since joining CAGicon have been very informative.

    There is some excellent advice to be obtained of a better quality than many other such sites.

    I do not have an ďAgendaĒ.

    I do not work for the US based ĎDavison of Internet Violationí

    Not to cause any paranoia to CAGicon members, and at least one Moderator, I will not be making any further posts and I will delete my membership immediately.

    Div.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Thank you Mr Moderator for your support.

    The responses I have received since joining CAGicon have been very informative.

    There is some excellent advice to be obtained of a better quality than many other such sites.

    I do not have an “Agenda”.

    I do not work for the US based ‘Davison of Internet Violation’

    Not to cause any paranoia to CAGicon members, and at least one Moderator, I will not be making any further posts and I will delete my membership immediately.

    Div.
    This is of course you choice, you are more than welcome to use this site and we will aid you to the best of our ability. You were corrected on refrences you made regarding the "hostility" towards MSE on this site. Gary has pointed out that the process used by MSE has flaws thats all. We (this site) spend a great deal of time rectifying these flaws and reassuring users who have had their claims threatened to be struck out because they used MSE's guide.






    I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.
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