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Hi guys, last year I successfully claimed back £6·2K in charges and 8% interest from A & L. They refused to pay some of my claim as it was over six years. Now as others are getting paid out over six years I'm going to go back for the balance of what they owe me.
My question is: can anyone tell me what the A & L conract interest (CI) rate is at the moment please as I'm going to hit them big time?
Jun-93 Sep-01 29.80% Oct-01 Nov-02 12.50% Dec-02 13-Jan-05 16.08% 14-Jan-05 Present 17.08%
Good luck .................... One issue is that if you claim "Contractual" this is counted into the 5k limit for the small claims court. Statutory interest is not.
There is no such thing as impossible; only the degree of difficulty required to achieve the desired outcome.
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Halicrap - Full settlement 12/06 £408.34
Crapitol 1 - Settled in Full 27/04/07 £15808-)
All & Pester - Claim served £5695 4/09, Stayed
Woolsnitch mortgage accounts - Claim served £2995 4/09, application to strike out 06/09
Lloybles - No CCA, CPR disclosure notices served.
Help required, could a mod or another member well versed in these matters please cast an eye over the following letter that I wish to send to Alliance & Leicester and make any useful/critical comments please.
Re: Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for account No. ********* – Mr. ** & Mrs. ** *******
Please see attached schedule of charges that have been debited to the above account between December 1998 and March 2000 as well as November 2005. These charges total £837.00 plus contractual interest of £1517.15 = £2354.15.
In 2006, after stating that you would defend a claim I made against you, you offered no defense and settled the claim for in excess of £6400 including court costs. This claim covered most of the penalty charges incurred up to the 7th November 2005. However you refused to refund the earlier charges from early 2000 and 1999/8 stating that they were statute barred.
So you know by now the arguments that I will present to justify my claim as I and many others like me are writing to you in the same vein. Nonetheless and for the avoidance of any doubt I will repeat them again.
I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.
Your charges do not reflect any actual loss; instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In particular, charges were applied after I entered into a transaction(s) without sufficient funds in my account. However, payment was declined by you, and therefore, the actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.
UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50).
Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outside the UK).
On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations:
‘Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation’.
Because your charges include a large profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are irrecoverable as an unfair term in contract. I believe that your charges require me to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation for incurring a transaction(s) which was ultimately declined by an automated computer system.
In addition, it is unfair to require me to subsidise your global debt recovery costs and debt write-off.
This latest claim for charges that goes back more tha six years is now being brought to your attention because; with regards to the limitations act and I quote:
32 Postponement of limitation period in case of fraud, concealment or mistake (1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4A) below, where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or (c) the action is for relief from theconsequences of a mistake; the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.
I was not aware these charges were unlawful till the OFT made their statements in April 06, therefore this new claim is payable by you, as the six years runs from discovery of the fraud, concealment or mistake.
In addition, I am also claiming Contractual Interest (compounded) under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in our contract. As the Alliance & Leicester has taken unlawful charges from my account, this constitutes unauthorized borrowing – thus, the rate of Contractual Interest used is the bank’s unauthorized borrowing rate. The standard rate of unauthorized borrowing set by Alliance & Leicester is 17.08% (see Alliance & Leicester: Current Accounts - Rates & charges posted on the internet), that is why this claim includes interest of £1517.15 and the figure is increasing daily.
I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law and I believe that you have failed to do so by taking these penalty charges from my account.
Please refund the charges made to my account within the next 7 days. As you closed my bank account in November 2005 I will accept a cheque made out to Mr ******* or a bank transfer to: Barclays Bank account No.*******, sort code: **-**-**02 account name: *** ******
The last time that I attempted to reclaim penalty charges from the Alliance & Leicester you delayed payment and denied that I had a case worth pursuing. This forced me to start legal proceedings for the recovery of my money.
You even informed the court that you would defend the case and then offered no evidence. If you force me to start proceedings again to recover my money I will draw to the court’s attention the “local knowledge” I have that you did not proceed with the defense of the last action I brought against you and that you never defend these cases in court, Indeed you abuse the system my going through the motions of responding to the N1 claim forms and then waste the court’s overstretched resources by not defending the claims, just delaying the payments.
I have plenty of evidence of this as I am a member of the Consumer Action Group and we monitor a lot of the claims that you and other financial institutions seek to defend but do not eventually go to court with.
[quote]You even informed the court that you would defend the case and then offered no evidence. If you force me to start proceedings again to recover my money I will draw to the court’s attention the “local knowledge” I have that you did not proceed with the defense of the last action I brought against you and that you never defend these cases in court, Indeed you abuse the system my going through the motions of responding to the N1 claim forms and then waste the court’s overstretched resources by not defending the claims, just delaying the payments.[quote] I'm not particularly well-versed in this area, Rip, but the contents seem fine to me.
However, if you're interested there are a couple of typos:- "...cases in court, Indeed..." - either full stop or lower case 'i'; and "...abuse the system my going..." - should be "by", I think.
Also, paragraph that starts "This latest claim for charges that goes back more tha (sic) six years..." you'll notice the missing 'n' from 'than'.
Letter looks ok to me. They wont pay up, so you will have to go through all the motions, but that's what they want. Whe you come to POC in the N! makes sure you emphasis that you have tried not waste the Court's time.
I would have keopt it short and sweet, 'pay up or off to court we go'.
Thanks Battleaxe, I thought as I'm giving them chapter and verse here they might not bother with court. But hey last time they were full of bluster and didn't lodge a defense. I've got time (and Right) on my side.
Cheers ROS
Data Protection Act Letter - 06/08/2006
Statements rec'd 14/9/2006
Preliminary Letter sent - 27/9/06
LBA - 18/10/06
Claim with Court - 31/10/2006
Got until 14/11/06 to acknowledge.
7/11/06 Received ltr offering full settlement minus
interest + court costs
12/11/06 - Rejection sent
17/11/6006 - Natwest Acknowledged
4/12/06 - Rec'd Natwest Def (Cobbetts)
5/1206 - Rec'd partial offer (Cobbetts)
THE WOOLWICH
Data Protection Act Letter - 06/08/2006
List of charges rec'd - 04/9/2006
Prelimary Letter sent - 06/09/2006
Response - 'fully investigating' - 11/09/2006
Claim with Court - 20/10/06
Acknowledged - 20/10/2006
Defence by 17/11/2006
AQ to be returned - 11/12/2006
Court Date - 14/02/2007
**SETTLED IN FULL**
CAPITAL ONE
**SETTLED IN FULL** 3/11/06
Hi Don4071, you're most welcome. Please feel free to contribute to this thread. Cheers ROS
Hi Ripoffstopper, sorry I've got nothing very constructive to add but wanted to wish you well & hope you get back your money.
I'm interested to know how yours is going as I'm in a similar situ with Nat West. Having successfully gotten back past 6 years charges, I'm now going after them for 6years +, but I'm only at the SAR stage.
Not even too sure if they'll give me statements going back that far, but been lead to believe that Nat West keep statements...but we'll see...
B.O.L
NatWest
Data Protection Act Letter - 06/08/2006
Statements rec'd 14/9/2006
Preliminary Letter sent - 27/9/06
LBA - 18/10/06
Claim with Court - 31/10/2006
Got until 14/11/06 to acknowledge.
7/11/06 Received ltr offering full settlement minus
interest + court costs
12/11/06 - Rejection sent
17/11/6006 - Natwest Acknowledged
4/12/06 - Rec'd Natwest Def (Cobbetts)
5/1206 - Rec'd partial offer (Cobbetts)
THE WOOLWICH
Data Protection Act Letter - 06/08/2006
List of charges rec'd - 04/9/2006
Prelimary Letter sent - 06/09/2006
Response - 'fully investigating' - 11/09/2006
Claim with Court - 20/10/06
Acknowledged - 20/10/2006
Defence by 17/11/2006
AQ to be returned - 11/12/2006
Court Date - 14/02/2007
**SETTLED IN FULL**
CAPITAL ONE
**SETTLED IN FULL** 3/11/06
Hi Don4071, post me a link so I can keep an eye on your progress please.
I'm also after Natwest for a pre 6 year claim with CI so that could be interesting as I get the impression that Cobbetts are out of their depth with the sheer volume of claims comming through. My link is below.
I wonder when RBS/NatWest will make a commercial decision to save on legal fees which must be hurting them and pay out to their customers. We must surely soon reach the tipping point!!
RIPOFFSTOPPER to take on A & L
from A & L. They refused to pay some of my claim as it was over six years. Now as others are getting paid out over six years I'm going to go back for the balance of what they owe me.
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Re: RIPOFFSTOPPER to take on A & L
Help required, could a mod or another member well versed in these matters please cast an eye over the following letter that I wish to send to Alliance & Leicester and make any useful/critical comments please.
Originally Posted by ripoffstopper
